Tuesday, September 05, 2006

Journal #1 - Is Progress that separates the rich and the poor true progress?

Your job is to provide comments on the following quote:

"So long as all the increased wealth which modern progress brings goes but to build up great fortunes, to increase luxury and make sharper the contrast between the House of Have and the House of Want, progress is not real and cannot be permanent."

Henry George, Progress and Poverty. A passage from one of the most widely read American books in the 1880s, the author was highlighting the great puzzle of the era: Why did such great poverty exist at a time of such great progress and wealth? The question has been at the center of much of America's political life ever since.

A couple of questions to get you thinking for your journal response:
- Can America be a great nation w/ 15-20% of its populace living in poverty? Why or why not?
- Why do we still have these same problems of wealth disparity today that they did back in the 1880s?
- Can the solution to wealth disparity be found in the government or in businesses? Neither? Why?
- Why has America prospered so much while some other nations failed so miserably?

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think the quote that Henry George wrote in Progress and Proverty means that you can't always get what you what. I believe hes trying to put you can't have your cake and eat it too in more modern and detailed form.
-Kellie H.

Anonymous said...

i believe that he was trying to say that people are becoming selfish and want as much as they can get not thinking about anyone else. I also agree with Kellie you can't get everything that you want and they thought that in that time period that they could and forget that there is a line between what you need and what you want and they only cared about what they wanted.
-Michael M 6th hour

Anonymous said...

I think Henry George is trying to say that the option of having a lot rises the wishes and needs for more. So therefore even if times change, people don't.

-Ken M.

chelsea said...

I believe the quote by Henry George shows that no matter what kind of progress is made, there will always be those who are rich and poor. Progress only causes more and more differences to surface and grow, and the two classes continue to grow farther apart.

Chelsea R.

Anonymous said...

I think the quote is saying as time moves on people keep getting more money (The haves) but why are the have not’s not making money? As time goes on it becomes more evident who is wealthy and is not.
-Jeff K.

Anonymous said...

I think Henry George is trying to say that the rich will awlays be rich and keep getting richer and the poor are cant become rich because they are healdback by the rich.

Joseph E.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Henry George's quote, Progress and Poverty. With the growth of the United States, the line between wealth and poverty has increased. The wealthy have now been wasting money on things they want but, dont need while the poor barely have enough money for the necessities. This quote clearly describes the line between poverty and wealth. The pattern of the progress has not chanaged in the past century. With our social lifetyle today, it shows that the difference between wealth and poverty is still in great danger.

-Evie C.

P.S. I posted this on Thursday, September 07, 2006 6:57:52 PM but I forgot to put my name on it.

Anonymous said...

Progress is not mesaured by how much a total nation has, but how well it is distributed through out it's population. America has a good majority living above the poverty line,but there is 15 to 20% that are under that. Many living under the poverty line are not given any way out.America has prospered so much while other nations fail beacuse of how our system of capitalism works.
-Emily B. 5th hour

Anonymous said...

I agree with Henry George. Modern progress made many people very wealthy. With this wealth came luxury and the ability to get what they wanted instead of what they needed. Wealth also produced selfishness and people were willing to take more than what they needed. Progress is not real or permanent if country's are willing to take so much and give so little in return. People want to get more wealthy and don't care if they step on some people along the way. That is one of the reasons why poverty exists, why we are still dealing with it in our nation today, and why it doesn't look like it is going away.

Brittany C. 6th hour

Anonymous said...

Progress that seperates the rich and poor is neither progress or regress. It just shows more of a difference between the rich and poor. When Henry George referred to "the House of Have" and "the House of Want," I believe that he was pointing out that there is a large difference between what all people want and what people need. Seperating the rich and the poor doesn't show progress because it is not helping or benefiting any cause. It isnt regression because it doesn't hurt or damage a cause either.

-Mariah V. 6th Hour

Anonymous said...

I think that what Henry George was trying to say was that a country’s progress that separates it into richness and poverty isn’t progress and cannot last. I disagree with what Henry George said. I think that progress means development in any way. Progress can be good or bad. America can be a great nation with 15-20% of its population living in poverty. This problem has been present in every society and at all times. All governments have tried to establish wealth redistribution policies and often encountered themselves breaking the market laws that made progress for this country possible. The extreme case of communist countries in the 20th century is an example of a failed attempt to rule the redistribution of wealth aside of the market rules. On the other hand, capitalism systems in western countries had shown an increase of economic differences between classes. In my opinion, I think that the market laws must work freely but that the government must establish equal opportunities for work and access to education. These measures make possible for individuals to switch between social classes. America has prospered in a short period of time while other nations have failed because the availability of natural resources and a rich variety of diversity in the population from all parts of the world, and a political system that promotes many freedoms.

Bruno

ian l. said...

i think there is still a sharp contrast in regards to rich and poor. i don't think we as a whole couuntry can move on until the whole country moves on. there is very little progress in devision.if the rich keep getting richer and the poor poorer.... well that isn't progress is it. so no we have made little progress

Anonymous said...

I agree with Henry George’s quote. There is clearly a gap between the have and have not. There is no real progress. The rich continue to get richer, while the majority of the poor stay poor. The pattern of progress has stayed the same. The government and businesses need to create an environment where the poor have an opportunity to work their way out of poverty.
-Brandi B.

Anonymous said...

I think Henry George is saying that there is progress for the rich, but not for the poor, so how are we progressing when many people are still poor. People have become more selfish with their wants that they would forget about their actual needs. The progress may be real, but that's just the progress for the wealthy. The poor on the other hand, in order for them to progress, the wealthy would need to change their way of life because they can afford a lot, so they can buy their wants.

Madelyn P. 6th Hour

Anonymous said...

The wealth of some people is getting larger and larger. Due to the richness, it increases luxury and shows more of what the two houses have and want. The House of Have has everything they want and they just keep getting more nice things because of how wealthy they are. While, the House of Want has nothing because they are poor. They wish they had luxurious cars and nice houses but they cannot get these things they want because of their poor wealth. The progress in life isn't good, it's not going to always be like this, it's not going to be for sure that the rich has what they want until everyone has what they want.

The main point that Henry George us trying to make "progress is not real." He views progress is not real because it only benefits the House of Have and does not support or give aid to the House of Want.

-Rhema S.
6th Hour

Anonymous said...

I agree with the quote in that progress is not real unless everyone shares in it. You may have heard that "a rising tide lifts all boats," but in reality it doesnt lift all boats equally. We've seen over the last six years that federal tax policy favors the rich, and it has greatly increased the inequality within our society.
Emily F.

Anonymous said...

I kind of agree with Henry George’s quote Progress and Poverty. As long as there are more and more people getting wealthier from the modern progress, there will be more and more people getting poorer from it. This is why the space between the rich and the poor is getting bigger. I do think that America can be a great nation with 15-20% of its populace living in poverty. America is already a great nation, even with 15-20% poverty because there is still a greater portion of the population not there. I think we will always have these same problems of wealth disparity that they did back in the 1880’s but at different extents. I believe that progress is real, but it cannot be permanent.

Claire M 5th hour

Anonymous said...

I think the quote that Henry George wrote in Progress and Poverty is true that there is no true progress when it comes to the rich and the poor. The rich obtain more things that they want, but aren't really neccessary, so they aren't making progress. The poor are losing more and more so they definantly aren't making progress. the progress that is being made isn't true or just. The progress that is being made is the rift between the two social classes.
-Colleen M

Anonymous said...

Henry George was trying to make a point: people are selfish, and the more money the can get, they more they will take. Of course the United States is going to have a gap between the rich and the poor, it is a democracy and our government doesn't have any control with how much money we make.

For instance, look at the USSR and North Korea, each of those countries have a government in which it tells its people what their job is and how much money they are going to make. Both of the countries failed and collasped because people are selfish and everything is a competition.
-Leah C. 6th Hour

Anonymous said...

The quote refers to the fact that we are being divided by income. By divided I mean that the people that have money and expensive things think they are better than those who don't and those who don't, resent them for that and think they are better than those who have money.

Joe C. 5th hr.

Anonymous said...

I belive what Henry George's quote is trying to say about Progress and Poverty, is even though our country is trying to build on what it has and making progress between the thick line of rich and poor there will always have that line, no matter what progress we try and make. Also the people of our country have to help and make there life and other peoples life better. We have to all come together and not be selfish.

Ashley B

Anonymous said...

I think that Henry George's quote ment that people are becomming more selfish and caring more about money and less about society. I also think that Henry Geroge was trying to state that nothing is every good enough for people and that they always end up wanting more. I agree with Michael to because i think people were concerend with what they wanted not what they needed.
-Shayna Stillman 6th hour

Anonymous said...

I agree with Henry George's quote from Progress and Poverty. I believe he was saying that people are confused by what they want and what they need. Wealthy people always want to build up greater fortunes and increase luxuries, but they do so by getting what they want and not what they need. The government wants us as citizens to give so much, but they give us as little as possible in return. It's mostly the citizens in poverty more so the wealthier citizens. Progress is not real and cannot be permanent in my opinion.

~Eboni Bell 6th hour~

Anonymous said...

i feel he was saying that there will always be poor people and rich people and it will never change unless the rich makes an effort to help the poor people.
-Myles Williams

Anonymous said...

I think what Henry George was trying to say is that you cant have everything you want. what you have you got to protect and what you want u got to work for it. Poverty probally still existed because even though the wealth increased there were probally still economic problems. It also could be that on the wealth increased in the high class areas.

Gil. C-6th hour

Anonymous said...

i think that this quote means that no matter how many people get wealthy, together as a society there will never be any permanent progress. most people that are already wealthy do not give back to the community. if people are making progress to become wealthy there is another person that is becoming less fortunate by the minute. so the number of people becoming wealthy is being offset by the number of people becoming poor, which shows no change in the population as a whole. this also shows the fine line between wealthy and poor, because you can be living the good life one day and not have anything to your name the next.
-Michael A.

Ian Kohler said...

I think the quote that Henry George wrote in “Progress and Poverty” means that one cannot always get what one wants. No matter how one looks at it, there will always be rich people living in big houses and poor people living in the streets. Even though rich people can have any tangible thing that they want, it is technically impossible to buy happiness. Instead, I think that wealthy people should instead give more to charity to help the poor obtain a better life. If this is not considered, the cycle will continue forever resulting in the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. If I were wealthy, I would not buy expensive things for myself, and would instead give many dollars to the poor to allow them a second chance at a better life.

-Ian K.

Anonymous said...

i think that the progress that seperates rich and poor is true progress. i think that it is true progress because you have to work for your wealth. if you dont work then you will not be wealthy. if you work then in time you will get money and live in an area that is nice and become wealthy.
-Chris H

Anonymous said...

I believe that Henry George is trying to say that as long as there is still have nots(poor) people in this world, that we have not progressed. A select few can countinue to make great progress but if most people arent then where are we going to go as a whole. If scientist make great progress with finding medicines but only half of the people in the world have enough money to even afford the medicine then what is so great about that.
-Jordan B.

The Young Phenom said...

the Quote Henry wrote means 2 me is that as long as the wealth of the country increased there is no true progress with no gain or decrese in the stature on a home or house


Ralph 5th Hour

Anonymous said...

i dont think that it matters if we have a bunch of the worlds richest people, if 15-20 percent of our people are in poverty then a couple of billionaires just arent good enough to say that weve made that much progress.


Chasey M 6th hour

Anonymous said...

Progress in the United States is measured by success of a few at the expense of the majority. We can compare our system of survival to Darwin’s Law-only the strong survive. Our system, which is based upon capitalism, takes advantage of those less fortunate. Our education system prefers those that can afford to pay. Our medical system penalizes those that fall ill. The United States does not provide a social safety net to care for its citizens. This form of capitalism is now exporting jobs from these shores to countries that have a much lower labor rate. We are unable to compete in this new world economy at past historic levels. Wages continue to drop and the line between the rich and the poor has become very distinct and not until poorer nations increase their wealth will this trend reverse. At that point, however, the United States will be incapable of finding a solution to the problem. Progress will be replaced by a massive rebellion against our capitalist system. Only then will progress for all be realized.

-Luciana D.6th hour

august orlow - 5th hr said...

i believe that progress in between the rich and poor is not true because some of the rich think that the world is theirs and that nothing was to stand in their way of them and their desires. the people in the vicinity of poverty wish only for a miracle and in the long run be equal to the upperclass and middle class. the poverty cares more of survival when many of the upperclass people wish to only have nicer things to make their easy lives more simpler and to increase laziness. yet some people make lots of money but are good hearted enough to make sure the dream of poverty is closer to fuffilled. because if no poverty was to be around, crime would go down and peaced may finally arise...

-August Orlow
5th Hour

Anonymous said...

I Believe that we have improves on the problem of poverty since 1880, and we have made tremendous pregress in many other things. although, wqe still have many poverty stricken areas that still need to be delt with. If these areas are not helped, or taken care of then they will just get progressivly worse. although, the people who have money now, and have solid jobs are getting more money, and progressivly working towards their dream house, job and overall life.

From, student # 1302

Geoff Wickersham said...

I do not believe that progress that separates the rich from the poor is “true” progress. The quote provided is very true because the only way for progress to be “true”, is if everyone progresses. If the 80 percent of the U.S. that is already wealthy get even more money, and the 20 percent who lives in poverty continues to live in poverty, then all we are doing is making it easier for a people who already have it easy. In the 1880's, our economy was growing and the social classes were kind of how they are now, because of the growth in the economy. The solution to wealth disparity would be found in both government and business because, the government controls the businesses and can set specific rules, and business can choose whether to hire you or not, and can also offer programs such as welfare, and except food stamps. America has prospered because of our forever growing economy and the partnership that the government has with the businesses

Jasmine M.

Charles 5th hour said...

I belive what he is saying is that we are divide by the amount of income we recieve. If you are poor your friends are poor, if you are rich your frienda are rich. The rich are holding the poor back preventing the poor to make a difference. The leaders in this world are rich and unless they choose to notice the poor than the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the qoute ofHenry George. it is a known fact that everybody cant get what they want. We already know theres a huge a gap between have and have nots. There is no real progress. The rich are still getting the most money, while the poor usually stay poor and its alot of them that stay poor. The pattern of progress has really stayed the same it isn't no difference from back in the day. There should be a government and a businesses that gives a chance to the poor to get their way out of poverty/poorness.

Gil C-6th hour

Anonymous said...

I believe that poverty will always exist, no matter what. There are probably more people who are wealthier now than then but the majority of the wealthiest people have made our country more modernized. Even though there is a 15/20% of Americans that still live in poverty, we can still be a strong nation. The other 75/80% of the population have been making our lives easier and I don’t think that it’s right to distinguish those people as the reason why people are in poverty, if that it what the quote is implying. Even though we still have the same poverty issues as we did back in the 1880s, we really have no excuse because we have a lot more opportunities now then other civilians had then. There are a lot more people with an education, which can get you practically anywhere. The solution to wealth disparity can be found in businesses because that is where the majority of the money is being made. Bill Gates invented the computer, which most Americans own. Even though he is the richest man in the world, he provided a great service to us and worked really hard for it. I’m not saying that poor people don’t do anything but wealthy people are definitely not to blame for their poverty. America has prospered so much rather than other countries probably because of our unity. In the Middle East, there are different religions battling against each other which practically tarnishes even the thought of growth or modernization to those countries.
So in conclusion, I don’t think that the wealthy are to blame for poverty issues. I think that they have helped us progress and I haven’t really heard any evidence that proves that they are to blame.
-Stephanie N.

Anonymous said...

I think the quote that henry george wrote in progress and proverty means that the people that obatained progress worked hard to achieve that. They been in the game long enough to make sure everything for themselves and their family was good. On the other side Proverty may have worked hard but didnt achieve wat they was reaching for. "Bad Karma" as some say.

Anonymous said...

I think that Henry George wants to say that the rich people can buy everything. But they only buy t for themselves but they could help the poor people because they really need help. But most rich people only think about themselves.
-Simone G. 5th hour

Anonymous said...

I agree with the quote. When wealth increases, more luxurious and expensive things are created. The prices on everything go up. This causes a problem for the poor people. As the prices elevate, the people in poverty are becoming less able to buy necessities. Soon, many more people who are doing fine financially will start to face the same problem. the problem wit this country is that it will look for any way to make money. To succeed in their goal, they will create luxuries and raise prices on things like shmpoo and what not. America is too blinded by their goal to look around and face this chronic issue, or are they? do they realize what's going on and just don't care? maybe they are afraid, but of what? maybe it's to lose their goal after coming this far. i hope not.

elise lieberman 5th hour

Anonymous said...

The progress that separates the rich and the poor is not true progress.
At any given time, the rich may progress, but the poor doesn't. As a whole,
a country or nation cannot progress this way. An example would be the Great
Depression. During this time, poverty outnumbered wealth. Therefore, the
country's economy could not strive. It is for this reason that progress
that separates the rich and the poor is not true progress.

John R. -6th Hr.

Anonymous said...

What I believe the writer of this quote was getting at is how the U.S. has fallen prey to the seven deadly sins, primarliy Greed. Those how don't have money not only want but need it and those who do have money want more. The only progress being made is self gradification through ways that are not ment to be praised.
~Jonathon C.~ (5th hour)

Anonymous said...

I think the writet of this qoute was stating how the U.S. has fallen prey to the seven deadly sins, primarily GREED. Those how don't have money not only need but WANT it and those who have it WANT MORE and selfishly take it.
~Jonathon C.~ (5th Hour)