We're just about done with the school year and you've been working with the latest American history (1929 - present) in a backwards, thematic manner. This semester, I've taken several issues or problems that we see in the news regularly - the Iraq War, the 2008 Presidential election w/ Senators Obama, Clinton and McCain, distrust of the government, the current economic recession, and the threat of nuclear terrorism and proliferation - and show you the roots of these problems by working backwards from the present. What I'd like you to do in this blog is assess your learning:
1. Do you think you learned history better by learning it backwards or in this case, starting with a modern day problem and then working towards its root causes, much like a case study? Or was this approach more confusing because we didn't learn history in the traditional manner? Or wouldn't the approach matter - history is confusing? Why?
2. What do you think are the benefits of learning backwards? What are the faults or drawbacks?
3. Compared to what your friends in other U.S. history classes learned, do you think you learned more, less, or the same amount of stuff? Why?4. Which unit do you think you learned the most in? Why? Which unit do you think you learned the least in? Why?
Due by Monday afternoon - 4 p.m. - 200 words minimum.
Thanks for your comments in advance. I appreciate all the feedback; it helps me improve for next year's class.
28 comments:
I believe that learning history backwards this semester has in a way helped me learn history better. We went from present day history to history back to the 1920’s. It was helpful because we would learn about the Iraq War, or the 2008 elections, and then we would learn about history from the past and we were able to compare history from today to the history in the past. We were able to see the similarities and the differences in the different historical events. This approach was not so confusing but when we first started the semester I thought that there could have been some confusion coming my way. But it was the first time that I was taught this way in a history class and it was fun and unique, and I liked the change in the learning style. Some benefits from learning backwards are that you get to learn present day history and then you get to compare with history from the past like the Iraq War with WW2 or the Vietnam War. Some faults or drawbacks from learning backwards are that some people might not be used to it and might not want to accept the change in learning style and might get lost. All in all I think that it was new fun way in learning and you should try again.
Stefanos T. 2nd Hour
1.I thought learning from present to past be a much better approach and I felt that I learned more. Learning the present first is a good approach because learning the present first you can’t really forget all the things that happen because it is always on the news.
2.The befits of learning backwards is that you learn the present first and since it is still happening while you are learning the past you can’t really forget it.
3.I think that I learned more because whenever my friends were doing homework or studying for test that didn’t know what they were learning, and what was the cause of most the things that they learned.
4.I think that I learned more in the Watergate scandal because I was actually really interested in what Nixon did and why he did that. I felt that I didn’t learn a lot in WW2 because we were learning it while finials were coming up and it felt really rushed.
Kathy Kakoz
2nd hour
Emily Corless
2nd Hour
1. Do you think you learned history better by learning it backwards or in this case, starting with a modern day problem and then working towards its root causes, much like a case study? Or was this approach more confusing because we didn't learn history in the traditional manner? Or wouldn't the approach matter - history is confusing? Why?
At the beginning of the trimester, it was easier to start off with present day problems. After we started getting into Vietnam the dates started to get confusing. It was hard to understand what happened first. I thought when we had the tests the dates were really confusing because I did not know what happened first.
2. What do you think are the benefits of learning backwards? What are the faults or drawbacks?
The drawbacks are we forget what happened when. The benefits are we can relate at the beginning of the year to recent events that have happened. Every year we have had US History we have learned from past to present. Doing something different this trimester gets confusing.
3. Compared to what your friends in other U.S. history classes learned, do you think you learned more, less, or the same amount of stuff? Why?
I think we learned more on some things and less on other things. I think we spent too much time on Vietnam. Other classes talked more about World War II and Hitler. I wish we could have learned more about the Nazi’s. I felt like we hurried through World War II.
4. Which unit do you think you learned the most in? Why? Which unit do you think you learned the least in? Why?
We learned more on Vietnam than any other subject. We learned the least on World War II and the Nazi’s. It felt like we spent three weeks on the Vietnam War and it was less than one week on World War II. I felt like I did not understand World War II completely.
I believe that this class was/is organize very well. The teaching was were excellent and i really like the charisma of the teacher. He show's alot of excitment in his teaching. I also like the organization of this class. I like how there is a homework sheet almost every week to show what test or quiz or homework is due. The homework is very acceptable and i feel that i learned alot in this class. And I hope to have the same teacher next year for a social studies class.
Tommy Syrkett 2nd hour
Personally, I think that learning history backwards was a little confusing. I say this because as I prepare for the final exam, it’s a little hard for me to remember what events came first, the order of the presidents, dates, etc. I think that if we learned it in the normal way, it would be easier to remember the sequence of the history we learned. On the other hand, there were some benefits to learning backwards. For example, starting with present day events was useful because we could relate to them, as they are happening in our life times. I think that we learned the same amount of material in our class as every other U.S. history class. Of the people I’ve talked to, we seem to have studied the same things and no more or less. The unit that I learned the most in was probably the Vietnam War, because we spent a lot of time on it. If we spent that much time on units towards the end of the trimester, like World War Two, and the Cold War, I probably would have learned that much in those units, too. However, we were crunched on time, and couldn’t spend as much time on those units, therefore those are the units I learned the least in. I think the retro U.S. history learning style was worth trying to see if it worked, and some people may have really liked it, but I personally prefer the traditional way.
Bethany Slon 5th Hour
Lorne Carter/ 2nd Hour
I believe I learn history great backwards. The style of traditional or backwards didn’t bother me, because I have to learn the material anyway. Well Mr. Wickersham’s class was entertaining and learning backwards was fun, I really didn’t notice that we were learning backwards, the information had a unique twist that appealed to everyone. I learned a lot of information, which I truly understood. You can see the aftermath of certain decisions either them being good or bad. We were all able to see certain events that led up to greatness or disaster. We were able to see certain people who influenced their present and our past in a positive and negative aspect. Due to the creativeness and upbeat lesson plans; I sincerely believe that each individual took something positive away from the class each day. Something new each day, which we didn’t know before. I retained the information very well and was able to remember class discussions verbatim on out finals.
I think I learned the most in the unit about the Vietnam War. I guess I paid more attention because I had a relative in that war. The unit I believed I learned the least was the unit about the Cold War.
Learning history better has certainly been and interesting, and unique experience. I feel like learning history backwards has had its pros and cons. It has been fun and exciting to learn history is this “case study” because it made me realize how similar events from today and the past are, and seeing their roots is fascinating. Even considering the excitement, I still do not believe that this method is more effective than the traditional forwards history teaching strategy. Its major flaw is that it is very difficult to after learning history backwards, to think about it forwards. When learning history backwards, I do not feel as like I got a good idea of the transitions between events. Learning history backwards, I can only think of it as this event happened and then this event happened. With the backwards technique, I still feel like we covered the same material as other classes of U.S. History. The unit I learned the most in was 911/the war in Iraq, because it was the most current and interested me the most. I also really liked the frontline video assignment, as I feel like I learned a lot. The unit I learned the least in was World War II because we were pressed for time, and rushed through it. Have a great summer!
Jacob Trunsky
4th hour
I think I learned history better by learning it backwards because I was able to understand how history can apply to today’s world. Before history was all about learning dates and locations, but now it’s about applying history to predict how future events will unfold. I don’t see why learning history this way would be any more confusing than learning it the traditional way. History is history.
The benefit of learning history backwards is we can see how it repeats and applies to modern events. The drawback is it’s more difficult to see how events in history lead into each other and possibly the timeline of the events.
I think may not have necessarily learned more than other U.S. history students, but I’ve definitely learned more important things. While they may take more time to learn the specifics of each part of history, I’ve learned more about how these events apply. I think learning history’s application is more important than learning its specifics.
I learned most about the 9/11 and the first Persian Gulf War. We learned it at the start of the trimester and we had a lot of time. As the year came to a close everything felt more rushed. That’s why I learned the least about World War II.
Stefan Rush
4th Hour
I think there were pro’s and con’s to teaching history backwards. I think I learned traditional history less, (the facts, dates, people etc.) but I learned a lot more about the general idea of history. What I mean is that, I may not be able to name you the secretary of state during the Cold War, but I can tell you what was significant about the cold war, and what happened because of it. I also liked how everything we learned we tied back to modern day. I have never really understood our economy, or the Iraq war, and now not only do I understand them, I understand the pros and con’s and historical background. The only drawback I think there is, is that I get confused in the order that things happen. Compared to my friends in other history classes I think that we learned not more or less, but different things. My friends focused a lot more on different wars while we focused more on politics and economy. I think I learned the most about Vietnam because we spent so much time on it. I think I learned the least about World War 2 and the Cold war because we spent the least amount time on them. Overall I think if I got to choose I would choose to learn it backwards again, because I liked tying it back to the present.
Kelsey Kaline
5th hr
I think the order we learn history in doesn’t really matter to me. Newest to oldest, oldest to newest, it’s all the same to me. But what I will say is that I think that the 1st unit we did on 9/11, etc, was a whole lot easier then the last unit we did. And many people slack off at the end of the trimester because summer is coming up and I think that it would have been a lot easier to have done the unit on 9/11 last. So the traditional way would have worked better for most people. My friends in other history classes didn’t have as much quizzes as us, but I like having a lot of quizzes, not too much, on articles to boost your grade. I think the amount of quizzes we had was acceptable, and helpful. The unit I learned the least in was probably the unit that had the New Deal in. I never really remember talking about the New Deal and what it has to do with. That is probably the only downfall I will have on the final because I don’t recall going over it in class or doing homework on it, but I do remember having a test on it. So all in all, I think the traditional way of learning is the best way.
jourdan g
4th hr
I thought it was more interesting to learn history backwards. It gave me a better perspective on everything and I would definitely suggest doing it again. I liked that we went more in depth with 9/11 and current events (Operation Sandstorm). Though I am curious to learn about WW2 and the Vietnam war It’s more interesting to me learning about the most recent historical events. I think there are many benefits to learning history backwards such as going from what you know to the history of it. the one problem that I think many of my classmates could agree on is, that it was confusing to go forward in US History A, but then backwards in B. I think I learned more than many of my friends because I feel like I found out everything I wanted to know whereas they still have questions. When we discussed topics you made it so we were able to ask anything and you had all of the answers. There was no particular unit in which I didn’t learn that much in. I learned an equal amount of information in every single unit; though some were short we got all of the information. I’m sure the incoming sophomores will enjoy learning history the same way I did (backwards).
MOLLIE YARSIKE/5
1. I don’t think learning backwards made it any more confusing than it would have been. History is confusing as it is and I don’t think the order you teach it in makes much of a difference. I liked seeing how things went together in a different order, and things tied into the war in Iraq,
2. I think some benefits of learning backwards are that we got to see what was going on in the present and then look back and see the things that led up to it. I don’t think there were any faults of it, because I think we learned it just as well as any other class.
3. Compared to other classes I think we learned that same amount, just in a different order.
4. I think we learned the most about the civil rights movement. It seems like we spent a lot of time on that, and I thought it was very interesting. I think we spent the least amount of time on Pearl Harbor and World War Two. It seems like it was kind of rushed. We took a few notes but we basically had to read the book and teach it to ourselves, at least that’s the way I see it.
Christy Slowinski
2nd hour
1. I think that learning history backwards was a great experience however I think that learning the past events of history first that could then show us how those events evolved today would make much more sense. I don’t mean this in any offensive way possible however, I did learn some from teaching backwards but it was so confusing trying to recognize how events of the future played into the past.
2. The drawbacks of learning history backwards would be that by seeing how the present plays out yet not knowing the back-story behind how that present day was formed can be really troubling. On the other hand learning about the science behind the way things are, can make the experience a lot more interesting. Learning the classic way is one thing but when you change it up the time spent learning can be a lot more interesting.
3. I think that compared to the kids in the other history classes 5th hour learned less because we have a lot of disruptions because of all the excitement for the end of the day. But at the same time I think that everyone paid more attention in the class because we all just wanted the time to fly by faster so we could go on to our own respective after school activities.
4. I think I learned the most during the 70’s era because it was so fun and interesting because it was such a controversial time for everyone and it was one of the most remember time periods. I think that we learned the least during the Vietnam war because it seemed like such a rushed time frame and even though we got a lot of notes we didn’t get as much explanations as most.
- Angelina Bertoni 5th
1. I think that i would have learned the same way whether we learned in chronological order, or if we went backwards. I do think that it would have been easier for me to understand the amount of time that was between each event, and the order that it happened. I was especially confused when we were learning about Somalia, the Persian Gulf war, and the things that were around that time period.
2. I think that it was a benefit to learn backwards, because we were able to see similarities between different events like the Vietnam war, and the Iraq war that we are in now.
3. A problem with going backwards, was that in the middle it got hard to understand what came first and the things that followed.
4. I think that we learned about the same amount of information. There were some things that I think that we spent more time on than others, but I liked it because we had a lot of discussions about what we thought about each event, and I think that made each thing more understandable.
5. I think that I learned the most in the civil rights and women’s rights movements. They were towards the beginning of the trimester, and I think that we spent more time on those things. I think that we learned the least amount of information in World War II. I would have liked to learn a lot more about the things that happened during the war, and things that went on in the concentration camps. I also think that we watched a lot more movies in the beginning than we did in the end, and I would have liked it to be a little more even throughout the trimester.
Overall I think that I learned more in this class then I would have in another class, because we had a lot of open discussions and it was a very laid back class. In some classes, I feel weird asking questions, or like the teacher just wants to get through the lesson plans and give us worksheets, but this class had a lot of room for opinion. Before I started history this year, I thought I hated it, but all in all I think that I love history and that it was just the teachers that I’ve had in the past that made it bad.
Katie B.
Michael Guz
Backwards history has its own advandatages and disadvangages. To me it doesn't really matter. It can be confusing sometimes like when we talked about Brown vs Board of education repealing Plessy vs Ferguson. We hadn't learned about Plessy vs Ferguson so we had to learn about that too. The fact that I came in halfway through the trimester also makes it harder for me to analyze how we did history. To be honest I didnt even realize we were doing history backwards. I agree a lot with other kids that if we did 9/11 last it would have been easier for us and it would be nice to have modern history stuck in our minds better. To me, learning about Vietnam was the most useful and informational. Part of the reason was because it was an interesting war which the whole country got very involved in and had interesting subculture. I was interested in the hippies, kent state, and the music. It seemed people were more into the war than they ware nowadats.
I personally liked the approach of learning history backwards. I thought seeing the modern day problems and how similar they were to problems from years back made things more interesting and also allowed you to see if the government learned anything from their mistakes in the past. I think some of the benefits is that you get to start with modern day, which tends to be more interesting than older wars and problems, it also makes it easier to understand and get inside the governments mind once you go to the next unit and learn how they approached that same problem years back. Some of the faults of learning things backwards is that most people want to hear, discuss and learn more about the present day stuff and either we don’t spend as much time on what we learn after that or it’s just not as interesting. Compared to the other U.S. history classes I think we learned the same amount because they have the same kind of topics, but ours was more specific events and information. I think I learned the most in the very first unit about the Iraqi war, and the hippie era we went more in depth with that and I learned a lot of new things I never knew before and I also enjoyed the movies and the topic in general.
Jessica Keyes
4th hour
For learning history backwards, I don’t think it really made that much of an impact on my learning for history. It was a little confusing towards the end when we were learning about not as recent events and was going deeper into history. But I think that weather were going backwards or forwards history is history, either way I don’t think it would have mattered. Benefits of learning backwards that we began the class with something everyone can relate towards because it is recent history. I think it helped give students a feel on what the class is going to be like. Since the information was rather easy in the beginning, it helped everyone understand certain things that were being done now as a result of recent things. Some faults are that towards the end of the year everyone tends to slack off a little more, so most students would rather learn and discuss things that they can easily relate to, rather than things about past history that we didn’t know much about. Compared to other classes, I think we have learned about the same amount as them. I always hear my friends talking about recent history, and I can help them when they ask me questions. The unit I think we learned the most in was about the Civil rights and topics about Martin Luther King. It helped show us how things are the way they are now. What I think we learned the least in was recent history like 9/11 but I don’t really know why we learned it the least. Either way I think students are easily able to adapt to the teaching styles.
Melanie Shaw
4th hour
Like first trimester, I really enjoyed your class. I think that learning history backwards can be a little confusing at times. Sometimes it helps more to learn the background events and what caused certain events in history. Learning history backwards was a different experience than usual. I enjoyed it but it did get confusing at times. The benefits of learning history backwards are that we learn what happened in history closest to our time period and then go back and look what caused it and the effects of the present and past and how we were affected by it. The problems with learning history backwards are that we don’t learn the causes of the events were learning until we move into history that was more in the past. This can cause what we’re learning to be a little blurry and confusing. Compared to my other friends, I think we learned the same amount of material. I think this because we are covering the same things, just in a different order. I think I learned the most in the war units. I am really interested in the wars and I understand more of the material we learned in the war units. I find wars to be a lot more interesting than the other things we learned.
Jason S
4th hour
In my opinion, I think that I learned history better in going from the past events towards the future. I feel this way because the events in the past help me better understand the events in today’s time. What I have learned from the past, helps me understand better why our leaders make the decisions that they do. The benefits of learning backwards is that you learn what made
American today. You see what happened in the past, and you see how it may help us in the future. I think I learned the same things as my friends did in other American history classes. I think that they learned things, maybe in a more easy, and fun way. They learn in an interesting way. I think I learned the most in the unit of Pearl Harbor, and about the bombs. I enjoyed learning this because I enjoy the movie Pearl Harbor. I like olden day times, and I just enjoy learning about it. I enjoyed learning about the bombs, because I think it somewhat funny that the government didn’t tell the people the true effects of the bombs. They just told kids to hide under their desks, and to just jump in a ditch. I also liked that they make fake towns to see what happened and they showed what happened to the towns, and I thought it was pretty cool.
Nicole Niezgocki
4th hour
1) I thought that learning history this way second trimester was better than the traditional way. We got to hear about the current problems and where they led from there. If we went from 1929-present we might miss a few points leading to present. So learning about current problems is more important to me than learning about the past in 1929. We would use it more than things back then.
2) I think it was a really good idea to go from present to past. We got to hear about current things that will help us for years to come. The only drawback would be trying to cram all the last bit info into the trimester which is really hard especially with the final coming up.
3) I think in a way we learned more. I talked to some of my friends about what they were learning and he said he didn’t even get to current topics. I would rather learn current things compared to things he learned. To me its more useful and we would remember it better for the final and we could focus more on reviewing the past.
4) I think we learned the most on Nixon and Water Gate. We spent a long time on that and a lot quizzes and tests were on it. The thing I think we learned the least on was World War 2. WE were trying to cram that in last minute with quizzes but in the end it never really stuck in my head for the final.
Nick Theisen
4th hour
1) I think I learned about the same amount both ways. As long as we covered the given material, I wouldn’t have a problem with either way. However, even though I learned about the same, it was still a bit more confusing for me. Since we were learning backwards, we learned something’s effect first. For me, I like knowing the main cause before the after effects.
2) Really, I don’t see many benefits to learning backwards. The only one can think of is covering current events more. Since we start in the present time, we are all ready to learn about them. However, this takes time away from what we need to learn in the past. Since we focused a lot of time on the present, we rushed the past.
3) My friends and I don’t usually talk about grades, but when we have, I would say we learned about the same. Frankly, to me, I don’t care how you did it. As long as I learn the needed info, I’m set.
4)I learned the same for most, but if I had to choose, it would be the woman’s rights and African American’s rights. I didn’t know much about those topics so it was fresh info.
Rob Salton 4th
Personally I think it was a little confusing to learn history backwards. It seems to me that it is much more logical to go in order because in history there is a lot of cause and effect and this semester we didn’t learn it that way, we learned it effect and cause, which was a little confusing. I understand you attempts to switch up history classes because they can get quite monotonous but I personally was not a fan of the backwards method. I feel as though we definitely learned as much as other classes it was harder to follow and find the order of events. It was nice however to have connections to present day events. I feel like things like that really solidify the importance of the lesson. I think that those ties lend themselves to both orders though so it isn’t really necessary to teach backwards in order to have the ties. I just think that history is so based on an order and a timeline that flipping it leads to difficulties. I do feel like eventually I learned it all but it took longer because it was more puzzle-like. You would get the result then a cause and some other causes and by the end of the week you got it all, not the end of the class. Not to insult you in way I just prefer the traditional method.
Oh and I didn’t know that we had to have these in by 4. Is there any way I can get an 14 minute extension??
Sarah Z
I think that learning about U.S. history in a backwards manner was a bit confusing, but helpful. There were some minor setbacks in this method. I like the idea of the case study, tracing the roots of the problem back in history. It helps us see what has happened in the past after we know what has happened in the present day, allowing us to compare the different time periods. The setbacks to this method were that remembering the order of every event and time in history was difficult, especially when we were learning them in a reversed order. Compared to other people in other classes, I feel like we learned more, but in a shorter period of time. This gave us less time to review in certain areas that definitely needed reviewing. Out of every unit, I think I learned the most during the Vietnam War unit. This is probably because we spent the most time on this unit, and I really feel that I learned a lot about the hippies and the growing influence of women in society. I think I probably learned the least during the Cold War unit, only because we were a little pressed for time. Overall, this class has definitely taught me a lot about the history of our nation that I didn’t know before. I will take this information with me into all my future history classes in years to come.
Claire Hayes
2nd hour
I think that I learned history better by learning it backwards from the modern day problem to the roots of the problem. I didn’t think that it was any more confusing that learning it the regular way, and I even liked learning it backwards because it was a new and unconventional approach to teaching history for me and I liked it because it wasn’t the typical way that sometimes gets really repetitive and boring. I think that any way the class is taught it wouldn’t be confusing because history is history and the content doesn’t change just the way you approach it and how it is taught/
Some of the benefits of going backwards are that you can see the effect of what is going on today and learn the cause of it from the past. Usually you learn what happened and now what happens because of that but we learned what is going on now and why that is going on which I liked. Some of the drawbacks are that you tend to focus more on what is going on today and not always what happened in the past.
I think that I learned close to the same amount of stuff, but that I knew more about what was going on right now because of the backwards approach to the history.
I thought that I got a lot out of all of the units but the one I got the most out of was the 2000-present unit because of all the current work we did and the one I got the least out of was the cold war.
Phil Bolton 5th Hour
I think that the benifits of learning backwards to me is an oppratunitiy to actually learn all of the history from the past, because when we have a new senetor or even have a new presidient i think that it is our time to actully learn all of the history behind it. my openions or even the americans openions are all based off of change, but how can we change of we dont even know the facts behind it. also i think that learning beckwards will be a goodidea becuase we need a way to get the right inmformation, and we can never have to much knowledge and in my conclusion we need more history to change our economy.
I enjoyed the learning backwards. In some cases it helped connect the things going on now. It was an interesting way to look at things. It was a bit confusing sometimes, but overall it was pretty good. It was a benefit because we were able to cover a lot, past and present. I think its fun to learn stuff this way. It’s not normal, not as boring as a normal history class. A draw back might be that it can get a bit confusing sometimes, because it seemed we were jumping between backwards and forwards and not going just backwards or just forward. Um, I really don’t know what my other friends in U.S. History learned being that I’m a junior and most of my friends are juniors and I don’t know that any of them had this class. But compared to my previous history classes I can say that this one was a whole lot more interesting compared to my world social studies class last year @ SCS. I think I learned the most when we were learning about Women and the different oil industries at the beginning of the year. I think I learned the most here because I thought these sections were interesting. If there was anything that I didn’t learn anything in, it was because I didn’t study, not because I didn’t get it.
~Alexandra Anderson
~5th hour
I think I learned history better backwards. From the backwards approach you learn about current events that you have lived through, and then you learn about events farther in history that you might not know too much about. I think the backwards approach keeps the class interesting and new. I think that the course could have been more organized though. Some of the things we learned were not in order backwards, such as moving from Iraq to Katrina then back to Iraq, and then to the 2000 election. I don’t think the backwards approach was more confusing as long as it is in order going backwards. I think the benefits of learning backwards were you could relate to the current events and then move back into history where some of these events or laws were formed. I think we could have learned more if the course was more organized. I think I learned the most about Vietnam War because it was a section that we covered for a long time. I think I learned the least about World War 2 because it was the last section we covered and there wasn’t a lot of time left in the school year. Overall it was a good class.
Paul Sidlosky
5th Hour
I thought that it was confusing to learn history backwards. It didn’t help to establish the basic history and our mistakes that we have made in the past. These important events in our history help us to understand current events today. They help us to understand how we need to learn from our mistakes and correct them in the future. We also need to use good examples in history to apply to today. They also help us to understand the current day and how we can apply good history to our events. But learning history backwards didn’t help us to use history with modern day. It just disrupted the process. We were learning the current day before we learned the basic but essential history. Also, we kind of just skipped around with the material. One week we were in Watergate and the next week we were talking about the depression. We really didn’t even go backwards. We might have started at the present but we ended at World War II. We should have gone from current day in order to the depression. So, overall, learning backwards was not a good strategy of teaching and it didn’t help to establish the basic history.
Ben Tredwell
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