Friday, November 02, 2012

Blog #41 -- Do we have free speech during war times?






During the Great War, the United States went to great lengths to stop people from expressing their views on the war and the draft. According to historian Sean Dennis Cashman, Wilson that war "required illiberalism at home to reinforce the men at the front. We couldn't fight Germany and maintain the ideals of Government that all thinking men shared...once led into war, [Americans] will forget there ever was such a thing as tolerance" (505).


So, in order to set Europe free from tyranny, the government had to restrict more of Americans' rights. Historian Howard Zinn has written at length that part of this suppression was done to keep Americans from expressing their anti-war sentiments/feelings:
- Why should we get into a war that we have no interests in? This is only about European colonialists, not U.S. interests;

- Why should I be drafted to go protect France or Belgium? (only 73,000 volunteered in the first 6 weeks after Wilson declared war on Germany in April 1917);

- Why should we spend millions and millions of our tax money to do this?;

- Why should we join a war that current French soldiers are beginning to mutiny against? (in essence, why we should we join a losing fight?);

- Why should we break away from our tradition of isolationism? It's served us well for this long (if it ain't broke, don't fix it);


So Wilson and Congress together got tough on this kind of anti-war talk and anti-draft interference w/ the Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918. The Supreme Court affirmed that we do NOT have the right to free speech as long as it creates a "clear and present danger" (much like yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre like Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes jr. so eloquently phrased it in the 1919 court decision, Schenck vs. U.S.).  Under these acts, a person can be fined up to a max of $10,000 (almost $200,000 in 2012 dollars) and given a 20 year sentence for interfering with the sale of war bonds or the draft, or saying anything profane, disloyal, or abusive about the government. Obviously, these laws violate the 1st Amendment.


A speech like this one by Eugene Debs is the kind of thing that got him in trouble and thrown in the big house:


"Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder. ...the
working class who fight all the battles, the working class who make the supreme
sacrifices, the working class who freely shed their blood and furnish their
corpses, have never yet had a voice in either declaring war or making peace. It
is the ruling class that invariably does both. They alone declare war and they
alone make peace. They are continually talking about their patriotic
duty. It is not their but your patriotic duty that they are concerned
about. There is a decided difference. Their patriotic duty
never takes them to the firing line or chucks them into the trenches."
(emphasis added)


*Debs was sentenced to jail for this speech and while in jail ran for President under the Socialist Party for which he received almost one million votes in 1912 and in 1920! Website for Debs: http://www.eugenevdebs.com/


During wartime, there is a feeling that certain ideas may be considered dangerous, traitorous, or even downright unpatriotic. Many have been accused of such things when criticizing their government during times of war, and our history book mentions some of them.  As I mentioned above, Eugene V. Debs, a Socialist Party leader and candidate for the Presidency, was sentenced to ten years in prison and fined $10,000 for "speaking out against the war and the draft" (Danzer, et. al. 392). Anarchist Emma Goldman was convicted and sentenced for creating a No Conscription League and then was deported to Russia after two years in jail. 

But my questions still remain:
1. Is questioning your country's conduct during a war o.k.?

2. Should asking questions about how the war is conducted, about the tactics being used (torture, waterboarding, etc.), about how the goals are being met (or if they're being met at all), or is it all worth the sacrifice of all the young men and women's lives??

3. Is this line of questioning during war time o.k. or does it make you unpatriotic? Why?

Your response to all three questions should be a minimum of 250 words, due by Wednesday, November 7.

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

I feel that we do not have free speech during war time because the government is very cautious of what we say so we dont offend any countries and make them mad to the point of were they start more battles. For instance the Zimmermann note was saying that Germany was going to team up with Mexico and fight against America. All Americans got riled up and wanted to go to war even though we had been peaceful the whole time and been neutral. That letter had played a big part in us joining that war. If germany had censored what they say Americans may have never seen that letter and we would have never gotten involved in the war and would have stayed neutral the whole time instead of coming in 3 years later.

Jason C.

Anonymous said...

I do not think that questioning your country’s conduct during war is a crime. If you take the freedom of speech away from the public, they will never be able to point out the wrong doings of our government. The government would be able to get away with a lot of things if the people didn’t say what they didn’t agree with. It is a violation of our first amendment rights to suppress people from saying what they believe in. I think that it is a harsh and severe punishment to sentence someone to jail and pay a fine for speaking for what they believe in. I think that American taxpayers have a right to know about the tactics, goals, and how the war is being conducted. They are funding the war and putting their own lives at risk, and should know what is going on with the war. I don’t think it is unpatriotic to question war in the United States. The people have a right to know why we are going to war and also have a right to question rather or not we should be going to war. Everyone is entitled to their own ideas and beliefs. It is not fair that all the “ruling” class makes decisions while the “working” class is in the line of fire. It is not fair that the ruling class decides when to make war and when to make peace while the working class risks their lives. It is not unpatriotic to question war, especially when there have been many reasons in history of why we shouldn’t enter a war.

-Laura G.

Anonymous said...

I do not think that questioning your country’s conduct during war is a crime. If you take the freedom of speech away from the public, they will never be able to point out the wrong doings of our government. The government would be able to get away with a lot of things if the people didn’t say what they didn’t agree with. It is a violation of our first amendment rights to suppress people from saying what they believe in. I think that it is a harsh and severe punishment to sentence someone to jail and pay a fine for speaking for what they believe in. I think that American taxpayers have a right to know about the tactics, goals, and how the war is being conducted. They are funding the war and putting their own lives at risk, and should know what is going on with the war. I don’t think it is unpatriotic to question war in the United States. The people have a right to know why we are going to war and also have a right to question rather or not we should be going to war. Everyone is entitled to their own ideas and beliefs. It is not fair that all the “ruling” class makes decisions while the “working” class is in the line of fire. It is not fair that the ruling class decides when to make war and when to make peace while the working class risks their lives. It is not unpatriotic to question war, especially when there have been many reasons in history of why we shouldn’t enter a war.

-Laura G.

Anonymous said...

I think what the counrty does is ok but at the same time is not need at because of the ways that they do or handle the situwation is very old and childisn because there are acting like everthing someone says they are going to do i understand that u are afrad that the person might follow thought with what they say so i have no problem with what the government does to protect the citezens and isself with the trearts from others Jordan B

Anonymous said...

No, I think that it is a form of treason to question your country in war time. This has been put in place by most countries in war time across time and it was never questioned, this might have been because those countries had a stronger sense of pride for their country and the punishment was almost always death. When you speak like this it is saying that you don’t have that much pride in what your country is doing. If they had put a death penalty or even a stronger penalty then there would be fewer cases in this problem. As to the second question, war is war there is no way to change that and make it “nice and pretty”. If we were to try to do this war would be called a “Cat fight” and then we would change it back to war. So if we were to ask questions and try to change war to be “nice and pretty” we would be beaten in every war and never to get anything across and lose Face with the rest of the world. Also what we wouldn’t do to our enemies, they will do worse to us. It makes you unpatriotic to ask questions during war time. This is so because you think that your country is not being proper. It even worse if you are in power or the armed forces, the best example of this in Russia during the USSR rule when a person in power or a special unit disagreed with something they were sent in to upper Russia to die alone in the cold. This is why it makes you unpatriotic to ask questions during war time.

Nico Romano

Anonymous said...

Supreme Court affirmed that we do NOT have the right to free speech as long as it creates a "clear and present danger" (much like yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre like Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes jr. so eloquently phrased it in the 1919 court decision, Schenck vs. U.S.). Under these acts, a person can be fined up to a max of $10,000 (almost $200,000 in 2012 dollars) and given a 20 year sentence for interfering with the sale of war bonds or the draft, or saying anything profane, disloyal, or abusive about the government. Obviously, these laws violate the 1st Amendment.

Anonymous said...

I do not think that questioning your country's conduct during a war is ok. If you live in the U.S. you have to deal with the wars that we get into and not say anything about it. The reason that you should not say anything about the war is because the government will be monitoring the country during that time looking for potential threats that could harm this country and its people. Even if you aren't trying to do any harm to the country it's not worth the trouble. Also it makes you I patriotic if you do not support your country during a war because there are American citizens over fighting to maintain a safe America and world. Whenever the U.S. gets into a war you usually need to back them because if you don't it makes the troops feel worthless and the country upset which doesn't help anyone. The only issue that is ok to question during a war is how the war is being fought. If the war is being fought in a bad way such as torturing then it would be ok to question if there is a better way to deal with the war. Also it would be fine to question the war if the goals aren't being matched such as the war on terror it would be ok to question if the U.S. is getting the job done. But for most issues you shouldn't question your country's conduct during a war if you are a true American.

Patrick Mason

Anonymous said...

Bella Adelman
4th hour
Do we have free speech during war times? I do not think we have free speech during war times. I know that we didn’t have it during World War 1. The problem comes when we have our young men and woman in the battlefield fighting for a war, getting killed or wounded, and not even sure if the war is the right course of action. It’s not good for feelings for the soldiers if everyone back home is second guessing what they’re doing. Today there is free speech and we can criticize the way a war is handled. That is because we should always fight a fair war, and only when it’s important. We criticized water boarding during the Iraq war and it was important that the issue was addressed and resolved. Our country is always responsible to our citizens weather is war time or not. Questioning the way we handle a way is not unpatriotic as long as consideration is given to our soldiers and we do nothing to put them in further danger. Questioning your government is good for the government so that they are accountable to their citizens. There is a law against aiding and abetting the enemy during war. It is important that citizens of the country do nothing to give an advantage to the enemy and for that reason some forms of speech may be limited. That is why I believe that we do not have complete free speech during the time of war.

Anonymous said...

I don’t think that questioning the countries conduct is a bad thing, since the people are a loud to know what is going on with their country. During the war, they were doing horrible things and some were very dangerous. If the country hears that something is going on that is horrible, I think that they should be allowed to hear about what was going on. The people had a right to know about what was going on since they had freedom of speech. But for what happened to Eugene V. Debs, I think that was unfair. All Eugene V. Debs did was speak out his opinion on him being against the war and the draft. Since he said this, he was sentenced to prison for 10 years and he was fined for $10,000($200,000 in 2012 dollars). After Eugene V. Debs, an anarchist Emma Goldman was sentenced to jail for 2 years. After her two years in jail, she was deported to Russia. All Eugene V. Debs and Emma Goldman did was speaking out their own words. But the government didn’t want people know what was going on so they sentenced them to jail and Eugene V. Debs was also fined $10,000. The government wanted to try to get away with something that wasn’t right. So they didn’t think it was o.k. for the people to tell other Americans that the government was doing horrible and torturous things to the United States. This is why I don’t think that questioning the countries conduct is a bad thing.


Jaime E. 4th Hour

Anonymous said...

I don’t think that conducting your country during the war is a crime.. When you take the freedom of speech away, we will not be able to point out our problems in the country and our government. The government would be able to get away with everything in the country without telling them that we know what they’re doing is wrong or that we don’t agree with them. We should be allowed to say what we think of our country and what we believe should happen in our country. We should support people to say what they think to the public. The taxpayers should know what they’re paying. They should know how much taxes they have to pay and they should know how the war is going to be conducted. They are fighting the war and putting themselves in risk so they should know whats going on in the war. So they would know whether they should go to war or not. It’s very unfair that all the ‘’high’’ class people make the decisions and hard workers just are on the line of fire. Its just unfair how they get to decide when to start a war or start peace. They should have a say in it , they will risk their lives for the war.

Dina Kadadi
4th hour

Anonymous said...

1.Questioning your countries conduct during a war is not ok because it could be thought of as treason. The contry may have things that they need to keep secret so the enemy dosent find out so during the war you shouldnt protest or question what the government is doing. its not your job to keep track of all of the governments secrets during a time of war. if you know to much you could be questioned or interogated about what you know and you may go to prision.

2.You also shouldnt ask questions about the governments conduct and goals because those things may also be a secret. during the war it may not seem like what the government is doing is worth the sacrifice of the lives of all the men and women but most of the people that are elected to be in government are smart and know what their doing so you shouldnt question them.

3.Questioning during war time makes you unpatriotic because it shows that you dont have faith in the government and that you think their lieing.you should just take the information that they give you because if you go looking for more you could get fined or go to prision.

Max Watzman

Anonymous said...

Connor Biondo

1. Questioning your country’s conduct during a war is not ok. I say this because just saying a simple thing can be blown way out of proportion or misinterpreted and backfire on you. Also someone else could hear that, misinterpret it and go spreading that all around causing any number of problems.

2. Asking how the war is conducted is not criminal but is frowned upon. And any tactics that are being used, regardless of what they are, are being used for the greater good of the country. The sacrifice of the men and women fighting may not be worth it but it was their choice to join the military.

3. This line of questioning is frowned upon but not terrible either. It doesn’t make you unpatriotic but you definitely should try to contain it because it might not seem like anything huge to you but others might overreact and go spreading rumors.

Anonymous said...

I think that questioning your country's conduct during war is not okay because your country needs to have a positive view on the war to be successsful. How can you expect the people fighting to be effective if the thing they are fighting for is being criticized? While it may not be worth the lives of all the people fighting, you should still show them support. I think questioning your country is unpatriotic because in order to be the great country America is today, we must fight for certain things, so we need all the support from Americans we can get. So when people question the war it hurts the overall effort of war. When president Wilson made the sedition act it was a good idea because it kept everyone positive and the people fighting the war positive too. It increased nationalism and patriotism in America making the war effort that much easier. We were successful during the Great War because of nationalism so why not do it now? It's no different to criticize a country's war effort as it is to yell "FIRE" in a public place because they both cause danger and get people riled up. If you start a commotion about the war no matter how you feel about it's not right because people have to fight and support that war. I think the sedition act should be brought back because we need it especially now with all the criticism on Obama with the wars in places like Iraq.

Ronald G.

Anonymous said...

In my opinion I think that the people in that time had no right to speak during the war because the U.S. government doesn’t want journalist to write about the war or anything involving the U.S. in the war. For example the was when the Germans tried to have an alliance with the Mexicans also known as the Zimmerman Note. Through the years 1917 to 1918 the American newspaper would push for action after the Zimmerman not happen. Then we went to war with Germany. There were also things that keep us from being in the war. There was and sill colder tides with Americans and Great Britain and also there was how the war seemed UN popular to most Americans. If we were involved with the war when it first started we would have a lot of death and there would be separation between the world.

Zacharias Egziabher

Anonymous said...

Questioning the actions of one’s country is wrong. The constitution guarantees everyone in the United States the right to free speech, and says nothing about any exceptions. The constitution doesn’t say “Congress shall make no law… abridging the freedom of speech… except during war time” or “… except during a national crisis”. It says “Congress shall make no law… abridging the freedom of speech..” No exceptions. If your country is doing something that you think is wrong or unjust, you should have the right to express your opinion about it no matter what it is. Another aspect of this is that many people label opposition to war as “unpatriotic” and “treasonous”, the war in Vietnam being the most prime example. But for most people, opposition to war isn’t born out of a hatred for the government, it’s born out of a hatred for war itself. When our government sends our citizens overseas to die in a conflict that not everyone is sure they should be in, then we have a right to speak out about it. This is particularly necessary in cases where questionable tactics such as torture and water boarding are being used. Some people may argue that criticizing their country during war time is unpatriotic, but I think that using your rights that are given to you by the United States constitution is an example of patriotism. If a person thinks the government is doing something unethical or wrong, they can and should speak out against it.

Anonymous said...

Jessica White
4th Hour U.S. History

I think that it is okay to question you nation because sometimes things that we do my not always be the best for the nation even if some people like the president do it doesn't always mean it is because a lot of young men and women are putting there lives on the line for our country and then you think to yourself is it really that important that thousands of people are going to die because we want one thing to go better for us but is it worth losing the people we love and care for? So i guess what i'm saying is that it isn't always that important to put these human beings lives at risk but then again they signed up for what they are doing wither it is the military, marines, air force ect. they know what they signed up for and what there getting them selves into because the government did not force them to join anything they did it out of there own will so i guess it depends on the situation if i think it is a good idea or not for these people to put there lives on the line.

Anonymous said...

i really dont think we have free speech during wartimes because saying bad things about your country that you are living in is terrible and when there is men dying out there for you so you can have these rights. the miltary is sacrificeing for your country and I would think they would need lots of respect. for example muslims now get so much disrespect because of the stuff that is going on in the middle east and people in america just not being nice to them. there was discrimnation with germans in ww1 banding anything that was german for example the launague and food. also all this newspapers and T.V covering all this is good because they can get the message out to to the people that this kind of stuff is going on. I hope the presdent now can change all this. lenny t.

Anonymous said...

Bella Hourdakis 4th hour


As citizens of America, I believe we have the right to question the war tactics and know what is happening in our country. It is not wrong to question your country’s conduct during wartime because we have the freedom of speech. Everyone has the right to give their own opinion. Even though we may have the right to say our opinion, it doesn’t always mean that it will always matter. Saying your opinion or questioning the plans may not change things. As for people thinking it makes you unpatriotic to question your country’s procedure, I completely disagree. If you are questioning your country it means you are keeping up with the country’s latest news and understanding what is happening. In 1918 the Sedition Act was passed. The act said that speech and the expression of opinion that cast the government or the war effort in a negative light or interfered with the sale of government bonds. It forbade the use of "disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language" about the United States government, it’s flag, or it’s armed forces or that caused others to view the American government or its institutions with contempt. This act was made as an extension to the Espionage Act in 1917, which states that it is a crime to interfere with the war effort or with military recruitment or to attempt to aid a nation at war with the U.S. Wartime violence on the part of local groups of citizens. Sometimes mobs or vigilantes, persuaded some lawmakers that the law was inadequate.

Anonymous said...

I do not see a problem in questioning your country's conduct during a war. I say this because I feel as if you should know about what's going on and it should be the governments responsibilty to let you know. Any questions that you do have should be answered and it shouldn't be a problem in doing so. No I don't think that it is worth all of the young men adn women's lives. Sometimes innocent people are affected by this. It doesn't matter if it's for the benefit of our country it just isn't right. I think that this line of questioning was ok during the war because you have the right to know what's going on. If you have questions people should be doing evertyhing in their power to answer the questions for you. Rather it's bad or good they should still be honest and you shouldn't get in trouble for wanting to know something or being curious.
Johne' Dogan
4th hour

Anonymous said...

No I don’t think questioning your country conduct is a crime during the war because if you take away the freedom of speech away from the public they will never be able point out the things wrong that the government is doing. The government would really just do what they want to do and they would most than likely get away with it because there is no one speaking against it especially the people who really disagree with it. And basically it discouraging our 1st Amendment and would take away our freedom of speech, press, assembly and petition. I think that it is a harsh and severe punishment to sentence someone to jail and pay a fine for speaking for what they believe in. I think that American taxpayers have a right to know about the tactics, goals, and how the war is being conducted. They are funding the war and putting their own lives at risk, and should know what is going on with the war. I don’t think it is unpatriotic to question war in the United States. The people have a right to know why we are going to war and also have a right to question rather or not we should be going to war. Questioning during war time makes you unpatriotic because it shows that you dont have faith in the government and that you think their lieing.you should just take the information that they give you because if you go looking for more you could get fined or go to prison.
Davion Curry
4th hour

Anonymous said...

Questioning your country's conduct during a war is okay. During wartime, I understand that there is a feeling that certain ideas may be considered dangerous, traitorous, or even downright unpatriotic, but freedom of speech is also a right that us, as Americans have and deserve. Asking questions about the war in general should be allowed, whether it is asking questions about how the war is conducted, about the tactics being used, or about how the goals are being met. Personally I don’t think war is worth all the sacrifice of all the young men and women's lives. War and physical fighting, in some religion is immoral. Many people think war and violence are not the answer and it is very unethical. I don’t think it is fair that the Unites States made men register in the draft. They should be able to decide whether or not they want to join the war to fight for the rest of the world. Joining the war isn’t just fighting for your country but also risking your life and people should have that choice. I do agree with the Supreme Court case that affirmed that we do not have the right to free speech as long as it creates a "clear and present danger" like yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. Although it is not right that under these acts, a person can be fined up to a max of $10,000 (almost $200,000 in 2012 dollars) and given a 20 year sentence for interfering with the sale of war bonds or the draft, or saying anything profane, disloyal, or abusive about the government. However, I do think that it is unpatriotic to question your country even though you should have the right to.

Lexi Kizy

Anonymous said...

I think questioning your country’s conduct in war is ok because everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but just because they say what they say doesn’t mean that it will happen or it is right, it is just what they think. The president and all the political officers make the ultimate decisions so in the end it shouldn’t even matter what the citizens say. The president is doing what they think is best for our country. How the war is conducted and how the tactics are being met is all up to the people in the war. I think people have the right to think freely and be curious about what is going on and if the right things are being done. Some people don’t believe in war, and I think others should respect that because that is what they think. People should not be told what to think especially about the war because some people don’t think violence is the answer. They don’t want to think of men and women being killed because our president wants to be involved in the war, but we should still respect their opinion. I think that this line of questioning is ok because like I said before, everyone has their opinions and they shouldn’t be punished for what they think is right, even if it isn’t. It does make you seem a little unpatriotic thought because you are questioning what the president thinks is best for our country, but you still should be able to speak your mind. This is what I think about the freedom of speech during times of war.

Elise S.
4th Hour