Thursday, November 06, 2008

Blog #7 - Why are we still fighting over evolution and creation today?

The Scopes Trial in Dayton, Tennessee was labeled the "Trial of the Century" when it occurred in July 1925. Editors across the country called it thus b/c the case represented so much of what was going on in the 1920s:

1. Old vs. New
2. Rural vs. Urban
3. God vs. Science
4. Faith vs. Reason
5. Traditional values vs. city morals

Celebrity lawyers Clarence Darrow and William Jennings Bryan battled for eleven days with very different intentions: Darrow wanted to put the Butler Act (Tennessee's state law banning the teaching of evolution) on trial while Bryan sought to rid the world of Darwinian thought seeing World War 1 and Social Darwinism as its end result). Scopes was eventually found guilty, fined $100 (which both the ACLU and Bryan offered to pay for him). Unfortunately, five days after the trial, Bryan died in Dayton.

In 1926, Mississippi becomes the 2nd state to outlaw the teaching of evolution. The next year, the Tennessee state Supreme Court affirms the Butler Act but overturns Scopes conviction on a technicality. 1928, Arkansas becomes the 3rd state to ban evolution.

Eventually, Tennessee would repeal the Butler Act in 1967 but pass a law in 1973 that requires science teachers to give equal time to creation as a competing theory to the origin of man. In 1968, 1982, and 1987, the U.S. Supreme Court declares these laws banning evolution (or requiring creation to be taught) as unconstitutional. It seemed that by 1987, the debate was over.

But, it's not. According to the article I handed out, "Monkey See, Monkey Do", Intelligent Design (ID) has taken the place of creation in classrooms and school board meetings around the country. There is even a think tank university dedicated to promoting ID teaching in public schools. President Bush believes that ID should be presented as a competing theory. One of the problems with ID is that there is no scientific basis to support it as a theory.

A school district in Dover, Penn. was prohibited by a judge from teaching ID in its biology classes in 2005, and the three school board members who pushed for its inclusion in the high school curriculum were recently ousted from the board after national embarassment. See the CNN link for this case: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/20/intelligent.design/index.html

So my question is two fold:
1. Does the teaching of creation / Intelligent Design in public schools cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state (where the government should not endorse or favor one religion -in this case the Judeo-Christian religion - over another) as specified in the 1st Amendment? Why or why not?
2. Should creation / ID be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools? And why in the world hasn't this controversy gone away even 81 years after the Scopes Trial?

Answer both questions in a minimum of 200 words total. Due Friday, 11/7.

Great timeline on the Scopes Trial and Creation / Evolution controversy:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4723956

More Evolution / Scopes Trial websites:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/evolut.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/monkeytrial/
http://www.scopestrial.org/
http://www.scopestrial.org/inhisimage.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/08/2/l_082_01.html

53 comments:

Lisa S 3rd said...

When looking at the creation of man, views from all over the board comes into play. The two main factors in the controversy still being faced today is religion versus science. While some believe that “g-d” created everything on this Earth in six measly days, others see the world as being billions of years old and man coming from uni-cellur organisms that grew more complex over time. To me, I think that evolution should be a must in a high school curriculum. Students should have the chance to see both sides of where we came from. After both have been taught, they can make the decision in whether we formed into what we are over time, or were created by a superior being. The reason why Evolution is such a touchy subject is because of the disagreement it has with the Bible. The Bible is supposed to be words directly from g-d telling the story of how we became. Evolution takes facts and research found throughout the world and applies it to where we started to where we are today. One thing that bothers many is associating us with animals such as amoebas or apes. The theory of humans coming from apes comes from key facts like the discovery of Australopithecus and Homo habilis. The reason why religious people stay away from these momentous discoveries is because of the challenges it brings to what they have believed in for so long. Even though some take it offensive, I believe that Evolution should be taught no matter what, so people can see scientific theories that show the evidence of how we were formed.

Chika Uchendu, 2nd Hour said...

I think that to say the teaching of creation and intelligent design in public schools cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state as specified in the 1st Amendment goes a bit far. Obviously, the most common creation story is based on Christian beliefs and is copied straight out of the bible. This is the creation story I believe in. But the theory of evolution could easily be called a religious theory. What really is the difference between the roots of the two? Each concept is based on what someone believed. So to impose the teaching of evolution in schools, you might as well be teaching the creation story. What makes one more universal?
I think that neither of the theories should be taught in schools. It is a tender point for everyone. And people take things differently and seem to be offended by either or. It would not harm the intelligence of anyone to not be taught the creation/evolution theory. That seems like a topic that can be addressed at home. It should be up to parents, or the individual, to choose what they want to believe. This issue has not gone away because a lot of people have strong opinions about it. There is always a struggle on important topics, like abortion, or whether execution is moral.

Ariel M said...

I think the teaching of creation in public schools should be prohibited. It seems to me if that the government doesn’t separate church and state and if this happens, that it would be similar to a dictatorship. This is America. The different kind of religions and the fact that some people don’t even believe in a religion is what makes America, America. Also because it was written down as the very first amendment, it should also be taken into account that at that time huge populations of people were very religious. The fact that they wrote that down is big. Also, I think creation shouldn’t be presented as a competing theory. It seems more like a topic to a private Christian school or something to me. Also if families believe in the religion the White house is or are religious, shouldn’t their kids already know the schpeel? Also, how will the families that don’t believe in any religion feel about this? This argument has been going on forever. For me, the reason is that it is still a little bit of a touchy subject because it’s also kind of saying that religion is lies (at least how we’re able to exist).

Johanna said...

I personally think, that evolution should be taught in a scientific way. People who don’t agree with that could send their children to schools, teaching it the other way. I also believe the state shouldn’t be involved in such questions. America is the country where every religion is accepted and practiced. So you can’t just consider the bible. There are so many different religions who believe in other ways of creation. In Hinduism, for example, people believe the three gods, Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu, are responsible for the circle of life.
I didn’t know that the creation is still considered a very controversial topic in the United States. I learned this out of the handouts and our discussions. In Europe 80 % (according to the video we watched) of the population believe in the scientific way of evolution and so do I. I totally respect the views of others and I think it’s interesting to know their thoughts about this topic. In some ways, I consider America to be kind of old fashioned in its values and I think this is why people still debate about evolution vs. creation.
So, all in one, I think schools should decide for themselves which way they want to teach the origin of humankind and the people can decide which school they want to attend. But, I also have to say, that it every person should know different theories and then, can pick whichever he or she wants to believe in.

Allison Woodberg (2nd hr) said...

I think that teaching evolution in public schools should not include the religious ideas of how man was created. I think this because not everyone believes in a religion and it would be like forcing a belief down the throats of students. If people want to learn about the religious idea of how we were created then they can learn about it at a religious school, but it shouldn’t be forced upon students, because there is no scientific evidence to back it up. I do think that this is crossing the line between the separation of church and state. I think that it is okay to teach the religious view as a competing theory, but not in public schools. If evolution is taught in science class there must be scientific evidence to back it up, so since there is no evidence to back ID it shouldn’t be taught in public schools, because the government should not be supporting one religious group, or any at all. I think that this controversy still exists because the issue was never solved after these 81 years. I think that until the controversy and disagreement between faith against science is solved this will continue to be an issue that is discussed. I do not know how we will solve this issue, because peoples ideas are so strong and differ so greatly.

alex chmara said...

I think that if taught correctly, creation does not cross the line when it comes to the separation of the church and the state. Every person will have their own beliefs and that is a given, and so I think that if creation by evolution is going to be taught, it should be taught in a way that wouldn’t offend any race or religion. Creation by religious beliefs should not be taught in public schools either for the same reasons.
I do not think that creation/ID should be taught as a competing theory for the origin of man because in this case there is no right or wrong answer. Each person is free to believe whatever they want. Putting the two theories up against each other is wrong. One theory is no better or more supported than the other. This specifically applies to public schools because of the diverse population amongst them. Private schools normally contain all kids of the same religion or faith, making it ok to teach a certain process of creation. This controversy has remained even after 81 years after the Scope’s trial because differences in opinion will always exist, and often cross each other when conversed about.

Adrian D. said...

I believe that the ID teaching in public schools does cross the line as far as church seperation and state seperation. I say this becuase I strongely believe that it would be taking it to far and that it would create a shift in many peoples attitude toward the subject and that another big trial or such could be on the horizon. Secondly, I would like to say that this "ID" teaching really shouldn't be considered as a scintific theory because it, as stated, doesn't have enough scientific support and can/t be just thrown in with evolution and such. Also, people ask why we still argue about this subject after much time has passed. The thing is, is that I believe that people will not drop this idea of evolution or being created from God's hands either. No one will, in my opinion, think of the human race, us, as an accident but destined to be and created from purpose.

Tim T said...

We are still fight over if the teachers should teach religion when we are talking about evolution in science class. There are so many religions out there that we can’t touch on everybody’s religion, so if we talk about one religion then the other kids with different religion feel bad or offended. Evolution is all about science so we don’t need to say anything about religion. Everybody has there own religion if we talked about all of the religion then that would take for ever. When the states banned the teaching of evolution, we are talking about the scientist perspective of evolution and how different animals are created for the climate and how they can eat. If you wanted to see the religious perspective then go to a catholic school, but these are public schools and we can learn about everything and the teachers can force a religion on the kids and every person has there own views. We will always be fighting if we should teach religion with evolution, there will always be those people that want to be most people think we came from monkeys. Scientist has evidence that there was a big bang and God did not create the earth, but people with religion have faith so nobody knows which one is the greater proof. People can believe in what ever you want and they will believe in what they want to because it is there God give right to believe in what ever. This argument will never be settled.

jeff anderson said...

No and yes, no because people do have figure of speech and that I think kids wonder what and how we came about the earth and I think they should be able to tell them want science has came up with on how we were made. Plus they will find out any way so wouldn’t you want your kids to learn about it in school were they are already learning thing why not add one thing. Now yes because well some people might say that education and the church should be completely apart, I also think that kids and people should be able to pick what they believe in, if it is that people evolved from monkey’s or if it is that God created us from one man and one woman (Adam and Eve).
Well I think they should put it in schools because I know what I believe in and so should all the other people that are so worried about this. I also think that it has not gone away after 81 years because we are always reminded about it in schools and back then it was such a big thing and it is hard to just forget things like, even after the Scopes trial.

Kyle "T-Snuffs" Gray said...

US History Blog Evolution KYLE GRAY
1). I have a strong opinion on this topic. Personally, I agree with the science. In biology class, we learned all about the creation of earth, and life. Earth was either an asteroid or a large chunk of rock in space pulled into the suns gravitational pull. Over time (Billions of years) an atmosphere formed. From here, there are 2 exploitations. One is that life was brought here after earth was struck by an asteroid. Another explanation is that from this atmosphere, and with electric strikes that amino acids formed, which are the building blocks of life. Life then took off from there.
In the Intelligent design (ID) theory, life is too “complex” and must have been created by a higher form. (A.K.A. GOD.) This has many problems, but the theory of evolution has only been proven with recent technology. Back then, in the 1920’s, that was all they knew. But now, that we have scientific evidence, I think It breaks the church/state barrier.
2). Honestly, I don’t think that ID should be taught in public schools. If you go to a Private, religious school ( Jewish academy, Brother rice etc.) they can teach that. But I think, that if you go to a public school, it is not fair to bring the ID and god into the classroom.

Anonymous said...

1. Does the teaching of creation / Intelligent Design in public schools cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state (where the government should not endorse or favor one religion -in this case the Judeo-Christian religion - over another) as specified in the 1st Amendment? Why or why not?
2. Should creation / ID be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools? And why in the world hasn't this controversy gone away even 81 years after the Scopes Trial?

1. I think it crosses the line between church and state. I think this because the creation story is located in the bible and teaching it would be teaching from the bible. So if you want to learn about the creation story from the bible you should go to a private catholic school. But I think it might be acceptable to talk about it ad get people’s opinion on it, but teaching it shouldn’t be allowed because it could be against some people’s religious views.

2. No I don’t think so. I think it should be presented as two different theories and that one is about how God created the world in 7 days and the other one being that man evolved from monkey’s millions of years ago. This controversy of them being presented as competing theories has gone on for 81 years even after the trial is because it interferes with religion and some people don’t like that and want to believe that god created man and not that we evolved from monkeys so there will always people supporting and not supporting this idea of evolution.


Alex Bolton
4th Hour

Elliott Hall said...

I feel that it does cross the line a bit. I feel that what is taught in public schools should not be any controversy over the subjects. I feel it would be wrong to favor one religion over another in a public school. The main problem is that not everyone believes in the same beliefs, so what one thing could seem fine to one student, could go against another students religion. I don’t feel that public schools should teach controversial subjects. And no I don’t feel that creation should be a competing theory of man since there is just too much controversy that goes with it. I believe that this trial has gone on for 81 years since it is still a debate question to this day of should public schools be allowed to teach evolution. And I don’t feel that there is a correct answer to this in which every public school would be able to agree upon. That is why I feel that this issue will continue to live on for centuries, just because I hardly doubt that there will be an answer in which everyone will be agreement on. That is my say on the evolution controversy.

Brett G 4th Hour said...

It is crossing the line when the government supports one religion over others. People have the rights to believe in any religion the wish to. The first amendment even states you have the freedom of religion. In my opinion the state should not be teaching a specific religion or be going against peoples religion by saying evolution is the cause of all of this. That makes it unfair to the people that celebrate different religions. It could make them believe that their beliefs are wrong and not important to the ones that are being taught at a public school due to science. Overall this would just create controversy with religious groups and cause problems with church and state. Intelligent Design should be a competing theory to evolution taught in schools. There are flaws with the theory of evolution and Intelligent Design claim is that the human cell is too complex to understand. A professor from Brown University said that evolution is one of the shakiest theories. Evolution does not say how the universe was created and how it started with a spark. And Darwin himself talked of god saying that there may be one. If evolution is not proven 100% why should there not be another thought or belief that said natural selection could not have done this. We don’t know for sure how we were all created.

Jake Chmara said...

I think that the teaching of creation/ Intelligent Design in schools definitely crosses the line when it comes to church and state. The different stories about the creation, to me, should be kept in the church or the temple etc. These ideas and theories are based and depend on the religion significantly, and not all of them of the same. In fact, many of them are very far from being the same. The schools of today are getting more and more diverse. At most public schools, there is many different religions and races. Each of these may have their own beliefs regarding the creation of man. If one theory is taught in school, it could contradict what is being taught to them religiously.
I believe that the idea of creation/ ID being taught as a competing theory in schools is a good idea; however, I believe that if the creation is to be taught in schools, each theory and story of each religion should be taught. If only one story is told, there would be no use in teaching it at all. I don’t think that this controversy will go away for a long time. Religious beliefs will never change. There will always be people who believe in the religious idea of creation and people who believe in the scientific theory of creation.

Anonymous said...

Teaching creation in schools crosses the line because it violates the first amendment the separation of church and state. I interpret the amendment meaning that religion should not be taught in public schools. Public schools are funded by the government; therefore, they fall under the first amendment. Creationism is based on faith which is what is taught in church, and what the founders meant in the first amendment. In private schools creation can be a part of the curriculum because parents choose to have it be taught to their children and they pay for it.
Creation should not taught as a viable theory in public schools because you can not prove creation it is based solely on faith. Versus evolution which is based on scientific theory. Many religions have different theories of creation and it would be prejudicial to present just one of them. Creationist wants their theories to be presented in science classes and faith has nothing to do with science. This controversy has not gone away is 81 years because there is not a right or wrong answer. People cannot prove that it did not happen so it remains a theory people keep talking about and strongly believe in.

tessa dickson Hour 2

Zac Felice said...

Personally, I think it’s acceptable for schools to be teaching creation and intelligent design in their classrooms, as long as none of the pupils object to the case. Of course this also applies to the parents of the student, and in my eyes, the lesson should be allowed to skip, with a note from a parent. As for if the small line between church and state, this doesn’t come close to crossing that line. The only issue that may cause a problem in this teaching environment is the fact that some students may be offended by having his views skewed. The main reason this issue hasn’t gone away after eighty-one long years is due to the fact that it is such an important concern in people’s lives. This is because the topic is talking about what they believe, and what they were taught, whether it’s a religious beginning of mankind, or a more scientific. Also, I don’t think creation belongs in the same classroom with the theory of evolution. I believe this because creation is a much more religious belief, and evolution can be backed up, with scientific evidence.

Anonymous said...

BLOG #7

Honestly in my opinion, I believe that teaching creation in public schools does cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state. The First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another. I believe that teaching creation crosses the line with this amendment because teaching creation is having a preference of a religion (Judeo-Christian religion). If children in the classroom do not have creation in their religion than this could be hinted as preference of religion.
I do think creation should be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools, but not taught, just presented as a competing theory. This controversy has not gone away in the even in the last 81 years because religion is a sensitive subject and you know there is someone who will always abject the teaching of evolution in schools. On the other side scientists will believe that teaching the way of science is the best option. This has been a major problem in the past 81 years and the evolution-creation battle will be bound to continue in the future.
ROB MCGOWAN

Morgan Pullins 4th Hour said...

I feel that its not really crossing the line because the teaching of creation / Intelligent Design in public schools when it comes to separation of church and state (where the government should not endorse or favor one religion over another). The concept of creationism/evolution is more science based than the concept of intelligent design which seems to be more religion and god based.The constitution does not allow a mixing between church teachings and government. The 1st Amendment states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Which in other words means the freedom of Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly, and the right Petition the government. So if the Amendment is stating the freedom of religion, and the government is going to show favortisem torwards a certain religion. Honestly thats really not freedom of religion. That would just cause eveyone to choose that religion. The controversy will never go away even 81 years after the Scopes Trial, because organized religion teaches one thing and science tries to show something else. There will never be reconciliation.

Anonymous said...

~Alexnadra Sewell second hour




To me, it does not seem rite to teach religion in a public school, or the theory of evolution. I think that if it is going to be taught, parents should be notified with a permission slip, or an e-mail, or something along those lines. People become offended, and feel that it is not a teacher's place to teach their child witch theory is correct. Another side of not teaching religion to students in school is that not everyone is Christian, or even believes in a higher being, so they too can become just as offended for thinking people’s views are being pressed upon them. If you want to teach religion to students: teach at a religious school [catholic schools, Jewish schools, Sunday schools ECT…]. I don’t think evolution should be taught ether to students. I think that people should choose for themselves what they believe, and not let a teacher try to persuade them or tell them otherwise. People may argue that teaching evolution will encourage people not to believe in god[s] or become an atheist. I think that the teaching of both is wrong, and it should be left to the person and their parents on what they should be taught, know and

Jamie Ray said...

I think when teaching creation, public schools do cross the line they separate the church and the state. In classrooms, especially in public school, there are many different types of people with different faiths and or beliefs. Students should not be taught to favor one religion over the other, because at home things could be way different. This would offend many students, and parents would not be happy that their children are taught this. I think it is invading on personal matter rather than just trying to teach students. There should be ways around this. If they are telling about the Christian belief rather than specifying or putting favor in it then it would be acceptable. I strongly believe that evolution should be taught in public schools. It is somewhat of an answer of what we evolved and I think students should be educated on it. The controversy that still is happening today is shocking. Even after 81 years people are still talking and arguing about it. I think this is still going on because many people have learned from their faith and religion different things about evolution and they cannot accept the other way it is taught. People have too many different thoughts on this for it to be settled on one thing, and be taught to many students. I believe that evolution is a part of science and should be taught in public schools.

Romain Ducasse-4th Hour said...

I think that teachers, in public schools, should only teach things that are, or can be scientifically proven unless they are connected to a novel, or a book. I think that there should be a difference between the government and churches, because there are many different religions that believe different things, different beginnings to human kind. If a student’s parent is not satisfied, or does not agree with what is being taught to their children they should place him in a private school, that satisfies the parents needs. In order to be equal to every religion, we must separate are selves from all of them so that there can be no misunderstanding what so ever, and only teach theories that have been proven, or that can be backed up by specific examples.

Dominique Fouche` said...

I don’t think teaching evolution creation / Intelligent Design in public schools crosses the line when it comes to separation of church and state as specified in the 1st Amendment because it is not pushing other belief systems on students. Its only teaching the scientific explanation of how we came to be. I think just teaching allows the student to choose for him or herself. I think it is fine as long as the students feel there is a correct balance between teaching and preaching.
I think creation/ Intelligent Design should be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in school. It gives the students two sides of the story. But the student must prove which one they believe is true. But once again it should not be forced upon them. I don’t think this problem will ever be solved because I believe there will always be one person who questions what some people believe is true. I think some people have to have a logical explanation for things, while others will believe in what has been taught to them for years and their faith. I think that some people won’t stop believing in what they think is the undeniable truth and others won’t stop questioning that undeniable truth.

Ryan Lesson said...

i think that the teaching of creation in schools doesnt cross the line in teaching them to childran in schools. In schools if there is scientific reasoning that evolution occured, then i think that you should be able to talk about that. The freedom of speech applies here because a teacher should be able to teach what everhe/she want to talk about. He/she should let the kids know that this isnt a proven theroy yet and is just a scintific hypothosis. Childrean should be able to choose to still belive there faith or science. Yes, i think that this should definetly be a reason why man went through evolution. If there is evidence that states that something is true then the thing should be true. So. if they have evidence that we devrived from monkeys then if there is enough evidencs then ill belive it. The reason why this issue hasnt gone away I think is because people still want there childrean to belive in such things. Like, God and angles. People are still debating today over that law of teaching and some schools even banned teaching but i think that the childrean should have a choice to either belive in there religon or in evoulution

erik young said...

I believe that the country is still torn between religion and the theory of evolution because people believe that with religion comes a sense of belonging in the communitys, this is unless the community is divided by relion in whcih case it just makes problems worse. What the theory of evolution did was change the way that people thought about things, it made people feel like they werent special because the scientists were saying that people werent created in the image of god they were decended from apes and beasts. and still people today want a sense of belonging and want to feel higher than just monkeys so they defend there christian postion on the matter instead of looking at the scientific data that clearly shows in favor of the evolutionists

Tim Moore said...

1. I think when it comes to the topic in science of evolution and creation of man kind i think it does not step over the line for many reason. When I went to the United States of America constitution website online to know the entire 1st admendment i thought that creation and evolution can be tught as long as the tecahers that teach do not force in anyway to make them believe it. The techers could say "this is the scientists beliefs and you you can believe what you want about this subject".
As long as they do something like that then i think it is perfectly alright. As long as the state does not enfore anything on the churches beleifs then the relationship between the church ans state should be good. 2. I think that the creation?Id competing thory should be presented inpublic school because it is relevent to evolution and th begining of time. If this is not taught scientists would think the public schools of the United States of America are missing a big part of some of the beliefs pf the scientists. For the scond part of the question, i think as long as there are public school that teach science and the begining of man kinf and there are churches out there with many beleifs then there will always be some sort of dontroversy about what shoudl and should not be taught in science class.

Jayla Anderson . 4th hour said...

The teaching of creation and Intelligent in public schools doesn't not cross the line when it comes to the separation of Church and state because Evolution inst a religion it how scientist think the earth and things has evolved over time. Some may think its not separating Church and State but its just evolution which is Science. But creation should not be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools because that would be fine with a religious school but not a public school with lots of other religions and other theory's for creation..

Matt Trogu said...

I do not think that teaching evolution in school is crossing the line because not everyone has the same beliefs as everybody else. For example some people might be Jewish and other religions. Also I don’t think that it is a big deal because the parents might not want their kids to learn about it but then on the other hand the kids might want to be the ones to learn about evolution. These two things should compete but the people that actually go to the schools should pick which one they want. I think that this has gone on for many years because people today still believe what the Christians believed in back then. Many of those people that believe in those things study the bible almost everyday and don’t want to here about evolution. While the science community wants everybody to learn about evolution and from what and how we evolved into the people that we are today.

Eric Pace 2nd hour said...

I don’t think that teaching of creation/ID in public schools cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state. It really all depends on what you believe and think about how you were created. If you think that god created and if you are sending your kids to a public school and they thought evolution and you would not want that. Then you should send your kids to a private school. Even though the first Amendment is freedom of speech, print, limit the right to peaceable assemble, and the right to petition. The big one would be the freedom of exercising religion. If it is a public school then you should have the right to teach what you what to teach. I think that creation should be presented as a competing theory for the origin of the man along with evolution in public schools because kids should get a taste of both evolution and what they believe in. This is a big controversy that has not gone away even 81 years after the Scopes Trial because people don’t want their kids to be taught evolution but yet they want to send them to public school. If they don’t want their kids to be taught evolution all they have to do is send them to a private school.

Anonymous said...

I think that it should not matter weather or not religion or the Darwin theory of evolution is taught in high school science. I think that if the teachers follow the rules and regulations of the teaching and religion code, then it should not matter what is taught. I think that the Judea Christian religion can still be discussed in public schools, but if it is, then you also have to teach the Darwin theory of evolution too. If you teach both subjects/ religions, then what are you doing wrong? I think that because this theory of evolution and the Judea Christian religion is so talked about and thought of, the Scopes trial will never be settled. Their will always be someone out their, who will always believe in what they stand for. Weather or not it is the Christian beliefs, or the theory of evolution, their will never be an agreement on this subject.- Nate Zakaria

tatiana boinais 4th hour said...

I think that teaching ID or creation in public does cross the line when it comes to separating church from state. The principle of creation is that a god made all humans the way they are in his image. This focuses on the Judeo-Christian religion. On top of that it brings religion and faith into the classroom. The idea that the world was created in 6 days has been abandoned by the scientists fighting for ID. They claim that nature is too complicated to be a random product of nature. They go so far as to say that the make up and design of a cell is too complicated to be a product of evolution. Not everyone sees in this manner, I personally have to disagree with this concept.
Personally I think that creation and intelligent design should not be taught in public schools. Public being the man word of that sentence I know that some of the more religious people believe strongly in creation. I think that if intelligent design or creations are to be taught, they should be taught in a private or religious school. A Christian academy can teach their students anything they see as important but there are so many religions, races, beliefs and backgrounds that its not fair or moral to force one point of view on the kids.

Katie Nicholls, 3rd Hour said...

1. I think that the teaching of creation/ Intelligent Design in public schools does not cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state as specified in the 1st Amendment. I think this because the first amendment clearly states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” If this amendment states that you have freedom of speech, then why should you be penalized for teaching creation/ Intelligent Design? Of course there’s going to be differences in religions and beliefs, but you should have the right to teach whatever you want to teach. It’s a classroom, there is supposed to be class discussions and debates about it. Yet, if you do teach creation/ID in your classroom, you have to make sure that it is not offensive to anyone in the class. But there is also another side to the situation: if you have a specific religion or belief, and you feel that what you believe is correct, there might be someone else with a different religion or belief that disagrees with you and you don’t have the right to tell them what’s wrong and what’s right according to either science or religion.
2. I think that creation/ ID should and should not be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools. The reason(s) why I think that it should be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools is because I think that students should discuss what they believe. Now by discuss I don’t mean get in a huge, fighting, debate about it, I just mean they should discuss what they think is true and what they think is not true. They don’t have to change what they believe in or make someone else change what they believe in; they should just be able to speak their mind. I think that it should not be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools because some people might find it offensive that teachers are presenting information that they think isn’t true or is wrong; but everyone has their own opinion.

Julia Chesbrough said...

The teaching of creation/ ID crosses the line, in my opinion. This is because science and religion are two completely different things. Science is based on true facts: things that we can see, test, and theorize. Religion is based on faith, hope, and stories. No one knows if the bible is the real word of god, but it's obvious that chemical reactions happen. Those two topics do not go hand in hand, because they aren't equal. God, one person, could not have created everything we see, touch, hear, taste, or smell. Science, on the other hand, can be proven to have created these things. From our nerve endings to our eyeballs, science proves everything. Religion, although it may be nice to have faith in something, cannot prove as much as science can. Since they are not equal, I don't feel they should be competing theories. I feel that if someone believes in creationism, they can learn that at their place of worship. Not everyone believes in creationism, or even god. I feel that science is something everyone can relate to, because it's so common. Therefore, science, and only science, should be taught it schools. I feel that this has been a controversy for so long because so many people believe so strongly in religion, while another half believes in science. Since religion can be a touchy subject, maybe some people don't have the courage to ban creationism in schools. Although I do support religion, I think creationists are making this a bigger deal than it needs to be. If someone wants to learn about creationism, then they can go to their church. If someone wants to learn about evolution, they can go to school.

Bryan Glesmann said...

I believe by teaching creationism in schools, the constitutional separation from church and state would be broken. Since creationism/ Intelligent design not believed by everyone, it should not be taught in schools… or at least that’s what government says. Some people may be offended by being taught that we did not come from apes, and that the world was created in six days, so therefore it is not allowed to be taught. But I have one question: If creationism shouldn’t be taught because not everyone believes in it, then why is evolution taught if not everyone believes in that either? This topic has caused controversy since the 1920’s and is still being argued about because teaching this favors the Christian and Jewish faiths. These two theories should be presented as competing because kids who go to school will not always be happy because some people won’t like the fact that ID is taught, and some won’t like evolution is taught; that is why there is so much controversy. The theory of evolution has many holes that don’t add up, yet it is still taught because it is scientific. ID is not taught because science cannot back it up, so therefore it is not scientific, and that is one of the reasons it should not be taught in science class. The solution to this problem will probably cause more controversy than the debate over it, so I personally think things should stay how they are.

Veronica Gordon said...

Depends on how far people go with the religion thing determains on if it crosses the line or not. I personally dont really care talking about it in school. People like to really get involved and in depth with it, so i can see where it would totally cross the line. In most cases it doesnt get too serious and its ok to talk about in school. I think trying to force a religion talking about it in school is differnt.
I feel that evolution should be tought in schools. I think this because people have alot of differnet views on how the world really was created. If the class discusses how everyone feels people can get input and other ideas from everyone else. There are more then one thories of evolution and if everyone calaberated and put ideas together poeple can try to figure it out.

bobby haag 3rd hour said...

Blog One bobby haag
1. I do not think creation or evolution should be taught in public schools. To me, it is crossing the line when it comes to separating the church and state. I think teaching evolution is bad to teach because it can offend a lot of people. I do not believe in evolution and think if schools bring up the different views of how life was formed, there might start to be an issue. There are also too many religions in the world, so not everyone believes the same beliefs and some do not believe in anything at all. That debate could even come to a point where it fights with the first amendment. I think the question on how life was created should be left alone in public schools.

2. Everyone has their own beliefs and the right to say and believe what they want. Evolution or creation, depending on the way you look at it or believe, should not be a competitive theory. There is too much arguments in it too put upon someone’s belief or view on the subject. Since everyone has their own opinion, I think the whole thing should be left alone completely because you cannot force your beliefs onto someone else. I think that this controversy hasn’t gone away after the Scopes Trial because it can still be looked on as an issue. I honestly think this issue will never go away. It is too much to decide on.

Kiara Massey 3rd Hour said...

I think the teaching of it in public schools isn’t wrong. The teachers should be able to talk about creation from God and evolution. As long as it the conversation isn’t offending to anyone than it should be okay. The first amendment states that we all have freedom of speech. This means that we should be able to say whatever we want whenever we want with the exception of a few rules. In a public school system there are people of different cultures, nationalities, and religions. Talking about evolution and saying that man evolved from monkeys may offend Christian people and using the creation theory from the bible may affect others. The government has made it the law to not talk about God in public school. I think this has ended most of the controversy so far. The Scopes trial was so long ago that most people have forgotten about it. I think that you should be able to talk about anything you want as a teacher. Just be careful what you say because it may offend some of your students.

Martin Hermez said...

1. I personally believe in both the theories, because both of them have their own pros and cons. I believe in creation simply because I am Christian and it is what I was taught when I was younger, however the more I study, the more I see that evolution is not exactly that far off base. The idea of the human having evolved from apes is hard to accept for many, and was for me too, but I think that people need to look at both sides of the argument with open minds in order to better understand the two sides of this issue. I do believe that teaching ID is somewhat too much to teach in school. If this school were a private (catholic) school then it would be a whole other story. However in this time, schools are very diverse with people and religions from all around the world. So people should not try to enforce the believes of two religions (Christianity, and Judaism) is not right, just because everyone has different believes, and at the end of the day everyone will always have opposing ideas, and believes, so as far as I see it this problem will never truly be solved.
2. Like stated earlier most U.S. schools are very diverse, and while I believe in both creation and evolution (and I do lean more towards creation) I still do not believe that people would like to be taught a theory that goes against the ideals that they have been taught for all their lives. ID and Evolution should only be taught side by side as competing theories if the schools have a big majority of the students agree to be taught both sides of each theory to see the differences. (second part about 81 years and stuff, I answered in Number One by accident…)

Anonymous said...

The teaching of creation, intelligent design in public schools does cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state but we are favoring one religion over another to begin with we get out of school around Christian holidays not so much around others. So if your think about it we need to start indorsing every religion if we are to keep one always ion mind{Christian religion}.
I think the bout subjects should be presented in schools or none at all, Even though all or most of science is about the evolution of most creatures by finding them out using science. Why are we still arguing about creation and evolution today? The reason is simple both argue about how we were created as humans, one challenges religion while the other challenges science. Religion alone is very tight issue now to say that what there has been for many hundreds of years and test it and may prove it wrong, prove it to be false angers and upsets many people. Science is coming up with new ways of technology every day, science is new and ever changing ideas and adding new concepts now that science had developed and helped prove so many new elements.
----Sharaya Solomon 4th hour

Greg Jackson - 2nd Hour said...

Yes, I believe the teaching of creation/ Intelligent Design in public schools crosses the line when it comes to separation of church and state. The fact that Christians and Jews can’t give their point of view when it comes to this case in schools is unlawful. It’s basically just telling students that this is the truth, here is the evidence, no if or buts. I don’t’ think this would be such a big controversy if scientists didn’t shove this in Christians’ faces. When you put out a theory with credible evidence that contradicts a religion, that’s fine, but when you start to teach students that this is the correct theory and that this is true, there’s a problem. The government amended the separation of church and state to make sure religion isn’t being forced upon people. Maybe there should be some sort of law the same for evolution, making it illegal to force a theory upon student’s minds and forcing them to learn about it. Maybe evolution should be a class itself, maybe an elective that goes deeper into what evolution really is. Creation/ Intelligent Design shouldn’t be taught as a competing theory in public schools. This problem wouldn’t be so big for this long if public schools hadn’t forced it upon students. I think if it was taught in school, students should have the right to take it as a course instead of it being forced upon them to take.

Timpriss Ratliff said...

I would say that the teaching of creation / Intelligent Design in public schools don't cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state.It should be endorse because i don't think that it's really favoring one religion but it is a study in life. The religions somewahat connect in some kind of way. Even though they teach different things but most people learned how another religion accured. Creation / Intelligent Design should be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools becuse it relates to one another. Some people don't think that both of them should be tought.So a better way to put it is that they should be tought right after the other.This controversy gone away even 81 years after the Scopes Trial because this is something huge in life.Just as well as those people fought to have Intelligent Design able.There are still people of different religion that don't want to learn about the creation of Intelligent Design so they will still try to have at not tought in public schools.

Anonymous said...

Faith p.
4th hour

The teaching of creation or intelligent design in public schools absolutely crosses the line between church and state. In public schools, they should only teach scientific theories with proven by prior scientists. All teachers and schools should be respectful of the churches theories and explain to their students that this is not what they have to believe, but the required curriculum, but after that make no other comments or apologies for teaching the proven theories. I personally have had classes where the teachers are too apologetic for these theories and try to be understanding but then everything turns into a political debate between the students, which turns into chaos that does not belong in a science class room. If they were to teach creation or ID theories in public schools then they would have to teach every religious theory and present them all with equal credibility, which would be a waste of time because the students would only believe what they have initially grown up believing. It is for this reason that this conflict has not gone away in 81 years, and probably will not go away for many years to come. People believe what they want to believe, and want others to believe that too. That fact about human beings is never going to change which is why conflicts such as these will be occurring until the end of time.

Jaimmie K 4th said...

1. It is hard to say I support one side over the other because I personally believe in both concepts. The idea that we evolved from monkeys can be seen as "far-fetched" if they we raised to believe something completely different. Since many children are raised to believe that they are created from god or in gods image being told that they evolved from a cell or a monkey might be a little shocking. But on the other hand some children don't believe in religion at all so if they didn't teach evolution in schools they wouldn't have any idea how we got here. Looking at both sides with an open mind is difficult sometimes, but I think if parents are so against the idea of evolution, then your kids can go to a private catholic school or a jewish academy, where they teach things based upon your views or religion. Public schools however should have the right to teach evolution if and only if the teachers don't mention anything about religion or force the child to believe in evolution and give up their own views. This problem has been around for over 80 years and it isn't going to go away anytime soon because of the diversity that bloomed all over the U.S.
2. The ideas should only be taught as competing theories at a place where all the students are comfortable stating their opinions and accepting the opinions of others. Or at a place where there is a screaming majority (a.k.a. a private catholic school or a jewish academy.) As i said before this problem isn't going away over night especially because of the extreme diversity that there is now.

Annie H 4th hour said...

I think that the teaching of creation/ Id does cross the line. I think this because in a school not based on religion, the teacher should only be teaching scientific facts that have been proven but explain to students that based on religion, everyone might believe different things. I think that students should have more of an explanation in school on what different people believe and why they believe it, but they don’t have to avoid the subject all together. If teaching in a religious school, I think it is perfectly fine to teach the students one side of the creation/ID, but you should inform them that in the world there are many people who do not believe the same things as they do. I think this should be presented as a competing theory because many people in the world are still debating on what’s the right thing to believe. I think that this has been going on for 81 years because you will never be able to prove anything from the bible and people are still always going to believe in it. You can prove science of evolution, but many people are more faithful in their church then science.

Allysa Hayes 3rd said...

Does the teaching of creation / Intelligent Design in public schools cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state (where the government should not endorse or favor one religion -in this case the Judeo-Christian religion - over another) as specified in the 1st Amendment? I feel in some ways it do and in some it don’t. Like how a baby is born or conceived there are scientific facts to show how it is done. The way man got on earth could be explained in science but is some religions they believe in different ways how we all got here on earth.
Should creation / ID be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools? And why in the world hasn't this controversy gone away even 81 years after the Scopes Trial? The government made as where religion isn’t taught in schools. So since there is no evidence to back ID it shouldn’t be taught in public schools. ID is just a theory no one really knows how it all happened so they shouldn’t teach it if they don’t know for a fact what really happened. I think that until the controversy and disagreement between faith against science is solved this will continue to be an issue that is discussed

Paige C. said...

I think the teaching of creation and intelligent design in public schools don't cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state,where the government should not endorse or favor one religon, as specified in the first amendment because Even though there are private schools for different religons such as Catholic schools,almost everyone in those schools are Catholic or have similar belifs, in Public school there are many different backrounds, races and cultures and belifs, when you discuss the teaching of creation in an open group discussion kind of way, about a religon, that religon can relate, but also, if someone from a diffrent religon has a different view, then they should tell theirs, because that is also more to the ciriculum,learning about diffrent peoples views and belifs,it can show how people are different but also similiar in your belifs, as long as it's talked maturaly and doesn't start any negativly dispuites. It varys from class classI think if the creation / ID should be presented as a competing theory, if the class is mature enough to handle some strong opioions and views without being too negative or rude about someones religon where It can be defensive, then i think it should be fine to present a competition theory.

Paige C.

Russell Balow said...

i think this is a grossly overrated topic, seeing as neither subject can effectively argue the other. think of it like this, religion is based on faith, meaning there will always be people whos faith is not shaken by any proof otherwise. science is based on fact, meaning that people will always be defending it as the natural truth. and besides any argument about how we evolved, the point is we evolved, so why ask why? ill tell you why, because its in our nature to argue, because each person thinks their right, this is common, to argue over what is most likely mundane, but when you get a group of people together who agree on one thing and group of people who agree on another, there is no possible way it wont end in conflict. now, science is obviously the more defendable option, seeing as many of the bibles stories are a little bit inconcievable, but, we still cannot be positive that science is correct either. as for whether the teaching of evolution is right or wrong due to seperation of church and state, it should not be a problem, as people who learn evolution are not forced to believe it, and vice versa with religion, so it shoudl not cause problems. in relation to the Scopes trial, that trial was not only biased towards the religious views, but biased to one kind of religious view (judeo-christian). in conclusion, i must come to the opinion that the whole subject is too complicated to cover in the course of a comment, i hope my point has been passed.

Shelby Lowe(3rd hour) said...

I believe that in school, creation and the origin of the human race, should be able to be taught. This is a belief that most scientists and science majors (science teachers, science professors etc.) believe in and if they are brought to the school to teach, and the creation that humans evolved from lower primates, it is allowed to be taught cause it is written in the books and there are some proven facts saying that this is the way we evolved. Personally, I think the evolution from lower primates is much more reasonable and explanatory, but if you believe in Adam and Eve because of your religion, that is fine. But, if you don’t appreciate the teacher teaching evolution, you can leave the class or tell the teacher to maybe assign you more work that does not relate to evolution because it goes against your beliefs and you believe it goes against you way of doing. I think our country is still fighting over the scopes trial because our country cannot come to an agreement. There are the people who believe in evolution and there are the people that believe in Adam and Eve because of their religion. There is a right reason but honestly, I think no one will ever know. I think this problem in America will never be solved.

Danielle 3rd hour said...

I think that teaching evolution in school should be allowed, but they should not tech it to correspond with religion. When you send a child to school, you expect them to learn everything they can, including evolution. When a teacher teaches evolution they are not talking bad or specifically to one religion, they also don’t tell your child to change his/her mind on beliefs. The teacher is only saying what the scientists think they have proven to society. It is necessary for every child to know some way of evolution, even if they don’t agree with it. Every person has his/her religion and beliefs, but by learning about evolution won’t change them. It could get you to think about it but never tell you to do something. Creation and evolution should be taught in public schools because everyone should know some way of evolution, even if they don’t agree.

Anonymous said...

Kyle Dewald
3rd


I do not belive that the teaching of creation / intelligent design in public schools cross the line when it comes to saparation of church and state. I personally belive that people should hear the theory of evolution and then choice if they think there religion is right or wrong. The teaching of evolution in public schools does not cross the line becuase you can belive it is real or you just ignore the theory if you think it is incorrect. Most students that attend schools already have there reglion, even if it force on them. many people will not change the way they think the creation of man kind got here and they will not change the way they think but i still think it should be taught in public schools to give an aletivitive to people who does not belive in there religion. the trail of the scopes trial never went away because many people think that it is wrong to teach evolution in public school and many people think that evolution is wrong.

Anonymous said...

I do not believe that the teaching of creation / intelligent design in public schools cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state. I just think its benefits what the students believe in. Also I think that the school
Is just teaching history and why other people want or choose to be catholic. I believe that public schools don’t teach religion because it’s filled with so many people that believe in so many different things. I the teachers or the board does not feel it is right to make or demand that the students have to believe and look at the religion the same way they do. Many people will not change their thoughts on how the creations got here we all believe differently. People’s parents may have told them different ways then the teachers are saying, that would just cause chaos. That’s not good for any at the school.

-4th hour Chassity T.

Megan Shanburn said...

1. Does the teaching of creation / Intelligent Design in public schools cross the line when it comes to separation of church and state (where the government should not endorse or favor one religion -in this case the Judeo-Christian religion - over another) as specified in the 1st Amendment? Why or why not?
In my opinion, i think that there is many ways to teach evolution. I think that it does cross the line when the teachings of evolution does favor one or many religions. Its not fair, and many people could take it to offense. And could also take it to bad lengths. I think when teaching evolution, you should present all theories of it. Not just one or one category of it. I think presenting science and religion so the students can decide on their own is a good way to teach evolution. You have to give both ideas so its all equal and everybody is happy..to me.

2. Should creation / ID be presented as a competing theory for the origin of man along with evolution in public schools? And why in the world hasn't this controversy gone away even 81 years after the Scopes Trial?

I think that creation should be taught as a competing theory for the orgin of man. It gives the students knowledge about what is being thought and developed as theories of our worlds evolution. As long at the theories from religion and science should be taught. After 81 years on this bouncing back and fourth, i think there should be some sort of agreement on this topic. Many people have many different views. I think all the very important people that contribute to this debate should all get together with more people and have a big vote on it. Or explain it to the people better so it can be solved.

Sarah Z, 4th hour said...

Personally I believe that you should be allowed to teach about creation and evolution. I believe that if it does not go too deeply into religion and how that plays out in evolution and creation then it is appropriate for a public school. I believe this because if someone does not want to learn it in a religious way in a public school, they should teach it in a way that all people can learn it without involving religion. Also I think that they should be allowed to teach it because it is an important thing to think about where we came from or how we developed into the human beings we are today. I think that if they go too deep into religion then it is definitely crossing the line. But if it talks briefly about religion and how it may have developed from that it can be okay. I do not believe it should be a competing theory for the origin of man in public schools because it should not be a competition where we came from and you can discuss it without making it a big problem. The controversy has not gone away because many people still believe it is not right for people to teach about creation and evolution in a public school.

(sorry this is late, I was absent)

elaina 4th hour said...

1) I believe that when it comes to creation and beliefs we should learn about it in public schools. I feel that in religions there are so many beliefs and if we were to change our rules of school to make it so every single student would not take offence to a subject or statement then we would have no curriculum at all. So how is it fair to change the Judeo-Christian religion but disregard the other religions? It’s not fair. I think we should be able to learn about the creation/Intelligent Design in public schools.
2) I think that belief in how we got here has too many ideas that to try and teach based on that would be nearly impossible. If they were to teach according to every belief whether it is g-d evolution or any other idea, then we would be in schools for a lot more than we already are. This controversy hasn’t gone away even after 81 years since the Scopes Trial because people are afraid of the idea that we may have gotten here simply from science. I’m weird so I kind of think of it like this: it’s kind of like the tooth fairy or Santa clause. When you’re little you might believe in the tooth fairy and think you have it figured out and you know exactly what happens, but then one day you find out that its actually just your parents hiding money under your pillow for a tooth, you’re disappointed and you don’t want to believe it. So maybe people are just afraid of the thought that they could be wrong.